New owner of 1961 1010C

[WV1010]

New to the board also been reading for a few days but just got accessed to post. Thank you Lavoy for the great site.

Well after years of wanting a dozer and having never run one at all in my life my brother and i found a 1961 1010c to use around the farm for $4300. Well after more or less playing on it for less then 7 hours total in 3 days time my brother was coming up over the hill to park it for the day and it powered out and ided and wouldnt restart. We thought it might not have enough gas in the tank so we left for 30 minutes to go get gas and top off the tank. It started on the first turn upon returning and my brother ran it for another 20 minutes just to make sure that was the problem. Well when he was trying to pull up the little bank again to come home it was losing power and i had noticed dark blue and black smoke coming from underneath the dozer. Well about 10 feet from the road it just died and now it will not even turn over at all. Also i have noticed the radiator semms to be empty which we had checked before we had started work that day. The radiator was also just from the shop as when we unloaded the dozer it had a leak and needed fixed.


So now i have 2 problems the dozer wont turn over at all and no reall way to get it the 10-15 feet onto the road. I was told our farm tractor will drag it and am waiting for dry weather to attempt that. The other is i think the motor is locked up and our mechanical know how doesnt extend that far.

I talked with a guy that lives a hour from here and he is willing and capable of working on it , he even said he was working on something atm that was alot older . What should a job like this cost to perform? If i am going to have someone tear into the engine i am wanting them to do a complete overhaul the right way since this is a once in a lifetime purchase and dont want ot half-ass it to only have more problems in the future. I called the local john deere tractor dealer and they gave me a price or roughly 5k-8k to rebuild the engine. Which i about busted out laughing at the guy when he quoted me that price.

Also any suggestions or tips on how to get the blade in the air to make dragging it to a level spot alot easier. Or would taking the blade off for now be something that can be done with ease?

[FarmLife]

well, on the engine, try removing the sparkplugs and turning it over. If it is hydrolocked with coolant removing the plugs would allow someplace for the coolant to go. Also check your oil, if it seems really full, or is brownish and the consistency of a milkshake then the coolant is going into the oil.

As for the blade, you should be able to mount a come-along next to the hydraulic cylinders and bring the blade back up. We have done it with our 550 when we blew a line, it will just take some looking and thinking but something will work. Good luck!

[Tigerhaze]

FarmLife's suggestions are a good place to start.

BTW, I believe the 1010s stopped production in 1965. It's not a big deal if you are sure it is a 1010, but thought you should know before you start ordering parts. If you have the serial number still visible then you can check for your year production here (go to the bottom of the page):


http://www.johnnypopper.com/weirddeere/NG/The_1010.html

[WV1010]

Yea thanks for that link it appears that ours was built in 1961 . I will try these suggestions out this saturday when we have time to wrok on it. Its on thing to be broke down but another to be broke down and over a hill.

[brettjones]

If only they would all break down in the shop....

I was like you in that I'd never owned or run a dozer before I bought my 1010. My first issue with mine was loosing a track in the wettest, muddiest most difficult spot on the lot I was clearing.

[jdemaris]

You probably got coolant onto a main-bearing and siezed the crankshaft. I've seen it happen many times with one-seal-per-sleeve Deere engines.
If used to be problem with 1010s, 2010s, 350s, 450s, etc. But, with the 350s and 450s - Deere came out with upgrade kits to convert them to three-seals per sleeve. No such kit ever came out to improve the 1010 or 2010.

I've had a few sieze like that, and was able to repair without removing the engine - but that is rare. When a sleeve leaks - #1 the oil pan fills with coolant, and #2 if running, you've got coolant dripping onto main bearings. What often happens is - the machine gets shut off - and the water level rises in the oil pan - and then, on restart - it gets high enough so the oil pump takes in pure water. That water hits a main - and the engine binds up like someone has a brake attached to it.

Get the blade up - with a jack if necessary (while holding the control lever in raise position). Pull the drain in the oil pan. If you get water - you know where the trouble is. Pull the pan - and look for rust-stain marks by sleeves. Chances are, you'll see a rust-track where it was leaking for a long time. Assuming the engine IS locked up from the mains - pull the one by the worst rust-stain - or just pull all. Best case would be - you got a lot of metal transfer onto the crank from the bearings but the crank is still good. We fixed many, in block with emory cloth. But, if the crank is scored - or - you cannot get it to budge - a complete teardown will be needed.

No matter what you do - the engine is still going to be a one-seal-per-sleeve unit. All later Deere engines get three seals. And, one of those three is a special expanding-type red seal that swells the first time it contacts oil or coolant to fill voids. I know of many 1010s and 2010s that were rebuilt - getting all metal cleaned, installing new rubber seals along with some type of additional sealant, e.g. red ATV silicone. They've held up fine.

If you are going to have somebody work on your engine, I suggest you find someone that actually does most of their own work, in-house. Many shops just remove components and send out - and that can cost a small fortune. In my shop, I do all my own injection pump work, cylinder head rebuilding, rod resizing, etc. In regard to the pistons in your engine, 1010 gas pistons can usually have the ring-grooves machined for repair shims, and work fine in a rebuild. Total cost is often $15 per piston - with machining and Hastings shims. Someone good ought to be able to do a decent job on a 1010 gas engine for less than $1000, unless the crank and engine has to come out.

[RANDY Fay]

I don't belive this problem was the results of a sleeve leak these little 1010 engs. are of the sleeve an deck design and had very little problems with leaks at the bottom o-rings on the sleeves--they are nothing like john deeres other wet sleeve engs. as you said in your post rad. had a leak when you got it--if I had to guess this eng had been run hot before you got it and may have head damage 1010 gas engs. were noted for cracking heads if they are over heated--even worse if cold water was added while they were hot--cracked head will sometimes blow all the coolent out the overflow as for eng. setting up--this is just my idea and mean no offence by it- I belive it was low on oil and when it started up that bank all the oil run away from oil pick up tube causing all that smoke as the rods then mains started to seze as for cost of repair my guess -have crank turned--I would bet it will need a least one rod--if main spun it could mean another block--rods almost always seze first as oil goes from block to main then to rod through oil hole in crank--At best it will be costly have fun Randy

Almost every sezed eng. I get called out on is full of new clean oil!! figure that out O-deere

[Stretch]

For what it's worth, I would say a head gasket let go causing the girl to overheat. That would cause loss of power. When you went back with gas she had cooled down enough to start. The problem is that you ran her to long with no coolant . There will probably be head damage, if you can't turn the motor over or even rock it with a breaker bar you probably have spun a bearing or two. But all is not lost, I would say by your description of what happened that the motor will have to come out. A couple of hours and she is out. Thats after you get her to the barn.
Strip the motor down and see whats wrong. As long as nothing cracked you can rebuild with machine work for about $1500.00 give or take.
You don't want to get your parts at Deere though, they are proud of them.
There are a lot of places to get parts at a much more reasonable price. Do the majority of the work yourself and you know it's done right. Not to mention the education you will get.
Lavoy started this board for people like us that like old iron, there is a wealth of information posted here.
Good luck, have fun, take pictures, share your experience, and don't hesitate to ask. Remember the only stupid question is the one that was not asked.
Oh, get manuals if you haven't done it yet.
Stretch

[jdemaris]

I don't belive this problem was the results of a sleeve leak these little 1010 engs. are of the sleeve an deck design and had very little problems with leaks at the bottom o-rings on the sleeves--they are nothing like john deeres other wet sleeve engs. as you said in your post rad. had a leak when you got it--if I had to

That is absolutely not true. How many Deeres have you worked on? Deere 1010/2010 sleeves seal exactly the same way as all the first 350s and 450s do. One black rubber seal per sleeve that sits in a recess in the block. The fact that 1010s have all four sleeves siamesed together on top with a plain-steel plate has nothing to do with any of this. They are still just normal sleeves that have been joined together on top with braze. Sleeve sealing against coolant at the bottom is no different that many later Deeres.

I've worked at three Deere dealerships, starting in 1968 on to the mid 90s. We had MANY leak problems with 1010s, 2010s, and the first of the 350 and 450 series.
That's is why Deere changed the design.

[RANDY Fay]

Maybe your problem was you were putting the packings in the wrong place!
there is no recess in a 1010--2010 block!! packings goes on bottom of sleeves with no twists in packing and no form a gasket have fun Randy

[Lavoy]

I would find it kind of difficult to believe that it was full of water, and in a matter of hours a sleeve leak just occured and dumped all of the antifreeze. Somewhere you developed a leak, question is where it went. Pull the drain plug on the pad and you will know for sure. Then drop a rod or main cap and see if you have any crank damage.
If you have a 3PT or loader on your tractor, lift the blade up while holding back on the hyd lever, it may transfer enough oil to stay up a few inches. If not, you can chain it up. Crawlers will roll quite easily in a straight line, and will turn too if you have enough pull on the front end.
If you are going to own the crawler for a long time, fix it right. Measure the bores to see how much taper there is, and if it is bad enough, put a new sleeve deck in it. I think I may have a set of oversize pistons if you would rather bore it, but you will have to make sure there are no cracks anywhere in the sleeve deck.
The main cost of parts will be the sleeve deck and pistons if you go that way, they are kind of pricey.
Lavoy

[jdemaris]

Maybe your problem was you were putting the packings in the wrong place!
there is no recess in a 1010--2010 block!! packings goes on bottom of sleeves with no twists in packing and no form a gasket have fun Randy

Well . . . again . . . you are absolutely, 100% wrong. And, nobody has to take my word for it - just look at one, or ask anyone that's actually worked on one. I add, that if YOU have worked on one, and didn't notice the bottom seals and the machined recess in the block bottom - you're doing a pretty poor job of fixing those engines.

I don't have a problem - but Deere did with their early sleeved engines.
I spent most of my life as a Deere mechanic and I doubt you're going to teach me something I don't know about 1010s and 2010s.

1010 and 2010s certainly do have a machined recess at the bottom of the block where the bottoms of the sleeves fit. Each individual sleeve bottom gets a black-rubber o-ring, Deere part # T12457 and that seal fits into the aforementioned recess after being placed on the OD of the sleeve bottoms. The seals get old, crack, and then leak coolant into the engine oil. The problems starts slowly, and many good running 1010s have small leaks. Such leaks can usually be easily spotted by rust-trails below any sleeve that has a problem. As engine blocks age, they also tend to get pitted in that seal area that makes them even more prone to leaks with just the single seals.

Deere fixed the problems in all later engines with special retrofit sleeves that enabled three-seals per sleeve. But, it was never done for the 1010.
So, many people use RTV silicone as extra insurance and it works fine. It results in a longer-lasting seal than OEM Deere, but does make sleeve removal more difficult later on.

In regard to this guy's problem, I don't have enough info to know what's wrong with it. I offered this as one of many possibilities, and 1010s and 2010s were well known for such leak problems.

[WV1010]

Thanks for replies from everyone.

While i am in the process of pricing this repair job i was wondering if their are any new engines available or reconditioned ones for the 1010 still on the market.

[jdemaris]

Thanks for replies from everyone.

While i am in the process of pricing this repair job i was wondering if their are any new engines available or reconditioned ones for the 1010 still on the market.

Nothing new, that's for sure. Reconditioned isn't going to be a standard item either - but some places custom rebuild used engines on special order. What many 1010 gas-engine owners do is change over to a 2010 gas engine since it's more common and powerful. It's a bolt-in swap, no modifications. 2010 engine is the exact same size as a 1010 diesel. Many of those larger engines were used in stand-alone power units and HA45 combines. A good used engine for $300 is a better deal than paying someone a fortune to rebuild your's. But . . . if your crank and sleeve-deck is not real bad, doing a decent job on your existing engine should not be all that expensive.

[mini kahuna]

I am with jdemaris,I have seen and opened up a ton of jd engines and the one seal sleeve motors are notorious for leaks,I had one so bad once that when I took the oil pan off and pressure tested the coolant a stream of coolant the size of a pencil shot out from one of the sleeves.
the multi seal setup fixed the 350 and 450....the 1010 engine is stuck with one seal.