Post
by jdemaris » Thu May 01, 2008 7:17 am
This is my take on it. Just my opinion based on some observations which may differ from other people's experiences. I like having a reverser - it's a nice convenience.
That being said - it can also be more costly than a machine is worth.
Buying any tractor that uses hydraulically activated clutches puts the owner in a similar situation to buying a high-miles pickup truck with an automatic trans. They are all of similar design - minus the torque converter which is not used in Deere 350s/450s. They are all built to last X amount of time with proper care - and after that - they all wear out.
Engineers use time-rating standards that predict life. Diesel engines - for example are "B" rated. An engine with a B-50 rating of 400,000 miles or 10,000 hours means - 50% make it that far with heavy duty use and proper care -and the other 50% do not.
One example that pertains to me. Last year I bought a 1994 Ford F250 truck - diesel - with the E40D trans. I drove it for a week before buying. Worked perfect. Then, after buying, took it on a 3000 mile trip -and in the middle of Canada - it suddenly sprung a huge oil-leak. There I was in the middle of a different country with no tools, no shop, etc. Wound up paying $3300 to get it fixed. Buying a used crawler with a hydraulic reverser/trans is not much different. If it has high-hours - it can work perfect and pass any tests you give it - and then fail shortly after.
I'm not saying they're bad. I'm saying everything has a service life and none of this stuff is designed to last forever. Some of these Deere hydraulic reversers are close to 50 years old.
When it comes to discussing older crawlers as collectors' items that rarely get used - I can't say much about it. Personally, I don't know anybody that owns a post-50s crawler for collector's purposes. In my area - many dairy farmers still have 420s, 1010s, 350s, etc. - along with AC HD3s,4s, 5s, 6s, IH 500s, et. al. These machines are users. Not all day - every day anymore - but all are work tools that get used ad hoc.
Last dealership I worked at - late 80s - we still had farmers and loggers having reversers removed. Not because they were bad design. More because when one failed - it could be converted to clutch-drive for the same cost as fixing the reverser - or less. The mind-set was - a clutch drive is easier to maintain - and easier to repair in the long-run.
Based on what we did for customers - and not for collectors - I saw the following.
The little all-gear reversers used in 420s failed often and we removed many. We regarded them as a weak-link in machines that got used pretty hard.
The reversers used in 440s that used dual over-center locking clutch packs riding in oil were much more rugged and held up if the owner adjusted them periodically.
The hydraulically-activated reversers first used in 1010s in 1960 -on through the 350 series? Ironically, some parts of the early ones were better than later. 1010s and early 350s used a spring-loaded conventional clutch disk for a torsional dampener at the imput and held up fine. But . . . then Deere changed over to a convoluted spring and anchor system - with later 350s, Bs, and Cs - and it became our #1 repair. They failed often. When they go they usually sieze the engine and the owner thinks the engine is blown. I saw two brand new 350Cs sieze up coming off the truck when they got delivered new - Deere had a big problem with them. We had one we sold new - a 350C -that was installed onto a highrise building in New York City with a crane - and a week later it siezed up. Me and another guy had to go there and fix it - bring all out tools up to the building-top via a service elevator. Deere finally eliminated the spring-anchor system and came up with a new flywheel and solid isolator - around the time the 350D came out. This new system is often retrofitted to older 350s.
I will also add - that many 350 style reversers suffered from "bad assembly" by mechanics who were fixing them. End-play in the mainshafts has to be correct or they suffer early failure from a burned up center-bearing. Too many shops were adjusting the end-play by "feel" instead of measuring with a dial-indicator. Adjusting by "feel" works fine for certain things - but does NOT work in these reversers because they will feel loose when they actually have a bearing-preload/crush sufficient to destroy the bearings.
That's my personal experience with them. For myself - I would never assume just because something works well - it will never fail because I take care of it. It is also the reason why many 450 crawlers in my area are getting scrapped once the HL-Rs fail. Parts have gotten incredibly expensive - and so have shop-repair costs. Many 450s are worth more cut up for parts then they are to fix. 350s are going the same way.
I have a 1960 1010 crawler-loader with a hydraulic reverser that's original. I know because I bought it from the original owner who had it since new. The engine has been rebuilt three times - but the reverser never touched. It still works fine, but lube-pressure is dangerously low when the machine is hot. It has to be run for a few hours before the pressure drops. I could sell it now and most people would think it works perfect.
I'll baby it and hope for the best. If and when it finally fails - I'm not sure I'll fix it. It all depends on what I can find for parts and what they cost.
