two questions: Preferred penetrating oil; aligning track

[Paul Buhler]

I've been using Liquid Wrench for a long time, but was wondering if anyone has found a "better" product. Thanks

The right side track is skewed outward noticably. I'd like to realign it, but I'm concerned about breaking the cap hold down bolts. The tracks stay on and follow the idler and sprocket pretty well. Should I take a "not broken, don't fix" approach, or...; I'm open to suggestions.

[country53]

I prefer Kroil Penetrating oil. If the track frames are out of line they need lined up. A string or straight 2x4 works well. I made a bracket that clamped to my drive sprocket and utilized a lazer pointer only to find the position of the front idler tension bolts has a definate affect on the alignment so I found center on the track frame up near the front idler and used that, must of worked I've been using it 3 years and haven't jumped a track. If I was doing it again I'd just use a straight board. I think I made it a lot more complicated than it really was. The bolts holding the track frame heat the threaded area of the frame cherry red before attempting to get them out. I didn't and end up putting frame on a mill to drill and retap.

[Paul Buhler]

Thanks for the info. I'm lucky in that I have snow pads on the crawler which lets me see the center of the sprockets and the idlers. I can easily use a straight edge (a piece of angle iron) to align using your method. The method used in the shop manual involves taking off the sprocket and using a straight edge against that face and measuring an offset; sounds good on a newer machine, but more involved on one with frozen bolts.
Thanks for sharing your experience with the frame bolts - I'm familiar with the use of acetylene penetating techniques. I've broken too many bolts by rushing something that requires patience and a deft touch. I'm using a trick that's helped me in the past - I made a paste/mix of sander sawdust and kerosene and have piled it around the bolts in question so that they can be soaking while I'm at work. I have a spray bottle of kero that I use to keep the mix wet. When I'm ready, to try the removal, I have a deep shank 3/4 drive, 6 point socket set that offers pretty good persuasion. I think I'll use your preheat method first though - twisting off bolts is no fun.

[Lu47Dan]

Paul . Another Vote for Kroil . I have found it to work on some very stubborn bolts in the past . And it cames in gallon cans or aerosol cans . I bought a gallon can several years ago and still have about a quart left in it . Your trick with the saw dust would work with the Kroil also . But I just give the offending nut or bolt a spritz every night for a couple of days before attempting to remove them . A little vibration with a hammer helps also to loosen stubborn fasteners that have been in a long time . JMTC(U.S) Dan

[real550A]

I've had great luck with PB Blaster. It's sold most everywhere like
WalMart and auto parts houses. Works great on old exhaust studs
and that's a pretty good test. Like others have said....a few squirts for
a couple days ahead of time.

[bkrr]

I like kroil to, spray it on a bolt in question for a week or at least a few days and chances are good it will come out pb blaster also work good but kroil is better at least thats my thought.

Brooks.

[DiggerLarry]

I use Kroil. It's pricy but worth it when you don't want to mess something up. For the general stuff, I use PB Blaster. Cheaper so you can wash stuff down with it. I also have some industrial stuff that I appropriated 20+ years ago and the gallon jug has long since lost it's label so no idea what it is. It's the best I've ever used. Time and patience is the key. And sometimes a little heat.

[ohmgman]

I have had my best luck using Dot 5 brake fluid as a penetrating agent.

[Lavoy]

The only two penetrants for rusty hardware that I truly believe in are water or lots of heat.
Lavoy

[Paul Buhler]

Thanks for all the feedback. I'll give Kroil a try. I was pretty surprised how effective Dot 3 brake fluid was at loosening up my stuck slave cylinder. The time and patience, heat and the right wrench/socket approach have worked for me in the past - I like to heat to cherry red if I can and use the wrench to get things moving a bit while still hot then hit the joint with penetrating oil to get things sliding and softening up a bit. I find that loosening then tightening and loosening then flushing with more oil has saved much broken bolt frustration. The heat and water method sound interesting except I worry about making the metal brittle; that being said, steam is a pretty powerful penetrant worth rethinking.

[jdemaris]

I've been using Liquid Wrench for a long time, but was wondering if anyone has found a "better" product. Thanks

I've never come across any rust penetrant that does much of anything.
Last Deere dealership I worked at - I was in charge of tool and supply purchasing for our shop. Stuck/rusty bolts was a major time user - and we tried many different spray "rust busters." Money was basically no object as long as something actually helped. We tried all the "over the counter" consumre stuff as well as industrial strength chemicals. As far as I'm concerned - all a waste of money.

If someone out there has actuallly found something that . . . for sure makes difference between breaking a bolt/nut - and gettting it off - I'd like to see it with my own eyes. For now, I don't believe it.

I've run many tests on threaded studs and nuts, side by side with equal rust. If one broke dry - I'd spray the other and let it sit for day. Then I'd try it - and it would still break. I've also put torque wrenches on rusty nuts that barely turned - and a squirt of kerosene mixed with used motor oil worked just as well as any of the high price "rust busters."

As Lavoy already stated - nothing works like heat when something made of ferrous metal is stuck.

[Lavoy]

I should have qualified my statement, I don't mean to quench it when hot, I mean soak it in water. Rust is a product of moisture, not any petroleum based penetrant. If you want to dissolve rust, soak it in water, the rust will absorb the moisture and loosen the rust. Just had a call on some tracks that had been rebushed, and left lay so long, they ruted the pins and bushings together and became one real long flat track. If you lifted on one end, the whole thing lifted like a board. Told the guy that water was the only way to save them. Half an hour later with a power washer, he loosened up every link except for a handful and saved the tracks.
I had a toplink so rusty one time that it would not turn. I heated it to the point that I was cooling the inner part with water, and the outer part was cherry red, and it would turn about 1/4 turn. Local machine shop locked it in a 15HP direct drive turning lathe, and it stalled the motor without turning it. I threw it in a pail of water for 3 weeks, put it in the vise, and turned it out by hand. The rust just poured out as I turned it out.
That is not to say that there are not situations where a penetrant works, but I believe in that situation, any penetrant would have worked.
Lavoy

[jdemaris]

Rust is a product of moisture, not any petroleum based penetrant.

Every situation can be different. Rust can often be an indirect product of moisture and subsequently, the problems can differ. Direct action by water on ferrous metal is oxidiation. But - with some alloys and dissimilar metals - water causes electrolysis and some metals can almost fuse to one another. With the latter, it's a problem that shows up more in newer equipment than with stuff built in the 1930s-1950s - due to the many different alloys now used. This also presents a problem in build-up welding and hardsurfacing in many newer undercarriage parts.

Different types or problems will react to different types of remedies.

[JD4302010]

I have been using a product called Fluid Film with good results. It's not a thin product and dosen't run off but still penatrates and lubes. It has nice smell when you put the "Heat wrench" to it.

[townlineterry]

I've had good luck knocking bolts loose with an air chisel the pounding seems to really break rust seal. Works better than a impact wrench at times. Chews the head ot the bolt up pretty good, so once you start you're committed to thatr course on action.

Terry