Reverser debris

tuney443 · Post by **tuney443** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:46 pm

I finally got around to draining the reverser oil on my 440ICD.Had a gut feelig there would be debris and there was plenty.About 20 pieces about 1/4'' to 3/8'' or so,slightly rounded pieces of metal.Is that from my forward clutch?So it looks like I have to split the rig.Anyone have an idea how much in parts I'm looking at?Also,why does the manual say to use typa A tranny fluid but gear oil came out?Would I cause any serious damage if I just ran the loader for say 4 hours using the double R method to go forward?I have an immediate need for the loader before I can start work on her.Just easy loading stone and carrying it through marshy ground.

CELSESSER · Post by **CELSESSER** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:59 pm

Tuney,
Sounds like you found the tabs that are missing from your front clutch disks. I have heard that to replace the clutches on this reverser can run you $750 to $1000. I don't know if that includes shop labor or not. I would be interested to know as I found two pieces like you describe out of mine. It still works fine but is probably hurt. As for using reverse+reverse to go forward, not a good idea as you are putting all that stress on the small spider gears in the reverser. They have small bearings that are probably already shot and if you toast the spiders or the carrier you may be done. One fellow on the board had to resort to trying to have his carrier repaired and remachined $$$ and I don't think he has it running yet after a year. Other option then would be a replacing with a good replacement reverser or a straight shaft eliminating the reverser.
As to lubricant, the manual I belive calls for type F transmission fluid. I believe Lavoy recommends using Hygard trans-hydraulic fluid.

Chuck

Tigerhaze · Post by **Tigerhaze** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:26 am

tuney443 wrote:Would I cause any serious damage if I just ran the loader for say 4 hours using the double R method to go forward?I have an immediate need for the loader before I can start work on her.Just easy loading stone and carrying it through marshy ground.

If Murphy's Law holds true, the reverser will go out right as you are crossing the marshy ground.

tuney443 · Post by **tuney443** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:15 am

If I have to spend $750-$1K on parts,I think I'll do away with that reverser altogether.When you say a straight shaft,do you mean basically taking all the guts out of the reverser but leaving in the shaft? I really would like to keep it original,but with that cost plus the fact you guys are saying the clutch adjustment is routine maintenance,makes it kind of practical to do away with it.I couldn't begin to realize the difficulty of adjusting the rear clutch pack with those loader arms in the way.The front one is hard enough--what were Deere engineers thinking???

Post by **Lavoy** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:53 pm

If you have ever used a reverser crawler, you will find in short order, that you will hate one without it. Also, it is not a simple matter of reusing the shaft you have, you will need to find the shaft for use without reverser, and the coupler that goes on it, neither are cheap, and the shaft is quite difficult to find now.
As to adjustment, I would guess that on a properly adjusted and run reverser, the adjustment period would be in the hundred or hundreds of hour range, really not a big hassle.
Lavoy

tuney443 · Post by **tuney443** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:58 pm

Lavoy---I have run nothing but 350's and 450's in my excavating biz since 1974.Have had 4 of them over the years,so yes indeed I know all about operating a crawler as well as TLB's with a reverser.However,I have NEVER had any problems with mine and really don't know anyone who has, and I'm in some serious Deere country.I've put thousands of hours on mine,from lot clearing,full basements,grading,the whole gamut--pushing boulders the same size as the crawler.So yes,I would love to save my reverser within reason,but if I can find these parts you mention at a reasonable price,I might just go that way.Thankyou.

Post by **Lavoy** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:38 pm

If you eliminate the reverser, the shaft is the hold up, I think the coupling is current, but around $100, not sure. I am out of shafts, and was not able to find one for the last 430, so had to improvise.
Lavoy

440dozer · Post by **440dozer** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:22 pm

my front clutches in my 440icd reverser where bad all the ears where sheared off. I used the front and rear spider gears from the reverser that slide on the shafts from the motor and to the transmission, turned them around backwards put a heavy walled sleeve about 3" long between them and welded them together to make a small shaft to connect the two. using for two months now and no problems. john deere said they discontinued the shaft and coupler that replaces the reverser assy so i had to improvise

tuney443 · Post by **tuney443** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:48 am

That sounds like some savvy redneck engineering 440dozer.I was thinking of something like that for mine. Did eliminating the reverser have any ill effects on your tractor's performance?To clarify,some 440's did not come with a reverser,that is why there is a reverse in the tranny?And that's why Deere used to sell that shaft with coupler?

Toivo1037 · Post by **Toivo1037** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:05 am

Tuney,
I am the dude with the 1 1/2 year long reverser saga. Part of that is my being super busy, the other was a horrible dealer that screwed me. Through it all I have learned quite a bit about the 440 reverser, and if you can clean and take a pic of you pieces, I think I can tell you what broke. I still have some reverser parts left over that I can compare them to.

FYI: an update on my project: Got the center spider manufactured, I had to modify it a little, but it is installed, my reverser it back together and appeares to be working properly (on the bench). The dozer is all set to be re-assembled, but I have been too busy with work, and need to find some help to put the engine back in.

440dozer · Post by **440dozer** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:12 pm

no difference in performance, although it is direct power from the motor to the tranny now, which is what the shaft and coupling would also do that you would've bought from john deere if they still sold them. you WILL need the heavy walled sleeve between the spider gears because without the reverser in there there is a 2" gap between the shafts.

tuney443 · Post by **tuney443** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:05 pm

Toivo--I think I can explain what came out.There was app. 20 almost identical 1/4''-3/8'' rounded metal pieces,nothing else except a lot of metal dust when I put my magnet up in the drain hole.

Toivo1037 · Post by **Toivo1037** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:00 am

I assume these are flat. How thick, and what material are they?

tuney443 · Post by **tuney443** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:36 pm

Toivo---it's in my previous post.

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