420 clutch/ ammeter

bulldozerman · Post by **bulldozerman** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:03 pm

When I pull on the left lever on my dozer, i have to pull it real hard on it to get the track to lock up and steer, does that sound like a break band problem, or the clutch not disengaging? And also, i put a new ammeter in and all it does is stay at 0, is that good, or is it not working?

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:42 am

as far as the steering lever problem, try ,on level ground, pulling on both handles at the same time. the machine should stop. If the left side keeps turning then the steeering clutch is not releasing. If the crawler stops then the problem is most likely in the brake area. Band may be worn or may need an adjustment.

The ampmeter should show something. + if charaging and - if discharging.
check all the wiring. If your machine has a cutout relay like my MC, that may be the problem.

Good luck
Bob

NNAATZ · Post by **NNAATZ** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:00 am

as for your brake problem, check to make sure that there is no oil in the brake/clutch housing. if there is, the band will need to be replaced.

Lu47Dan · Post by **Lu47Dan** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:31 am

If there is oil in the steering clutch housing and the brake band is ruined , then the source of the oil needs to be fixed also before replacing the band . At $150 a crack it is cheaper in the long run to fix the oil leak .
Dan

NNAATZ · Post by **NNAATZ** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:26 pm

yes, i forgot to add that, replace seals, check the clutch make sure no oil had touched that ether, if this is the problem.

Ray III · Post by **Ray III** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:39 pm

Your electrical system is not charging. Put a voltmeter between ground and the "A" post on the generator and connect a jumper wire from ground to the "F" terminal. You should see 6 volts or so.

If not, put the jumper wire from battery negative to the "A" post ONLY for a couple seconds to polarize the generator, then reconnect from ground to "F".

If still no voltage, your generator may not be working.

If you can get voltage out of the generator by grounding "F", then the problem is in the regulator.

Let us know.

Paul Buhler · Post by **Paul Buhler** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:33 pm

I'm curious, On winch brake bands I've had good results a number of times burning off soaked oil with a welding torch. I take the band to a metal table (55gal drum on end) so I don't have to worry about a fire, and heat it section by section until the whole thing has been dried. I usually see some white dusty powder and carbon black. I let it cool a bit then wire brush/sand the chalk and carbon off, exposing a pretty good looking surface. I then reinstall the band, and it has always worked as it's supposed too. I'm careful not to overheat the band - I want the oil to burn off, and not distort the metal backing or separate the lining from the metal. I've found that the band can take a lot of heat though. Looking at the pictures of steering brakes, I wonder if this method would work for them too? Of course any oil leaks need to be repaired prior to reinstallation. Looking at some recent pictures posted on this site, there's a lot of material in these bands and at worst, if it didn't work what's been lost - the brake band needs to be relined or replaced anyway.

I also wear a dust mask when doing this outside - asbestos and all that.
Any thoughts?

rvbarkley · Post by **rvbarkley** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:27 am

Pretty common knowledge....but maybe worth repeating. Always need to be careful with a torch around a closed drum. Heat can vaporize remnants and flame can ignite with explosive results. Thats why I've always been told that you're always supposed to cut the top out with a chisel and never use a torch.

Tigerhaze · Post by **Tigerhaze** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:01 am

I think in another post that Jdemaris stated he has baked clutch disc linings and/or brake linings in an oven before to get the oil out- may want to ask him or find that post.

In any case, many people recommend replacing with new since it is time and labor intensive to remove bands in the first place and don't want to do it again in case heating the oil out doesn't work in the long term. Lavoy stated in another post that he has tried that and thought he got it all out, only to find that it comes out later when working the crawler hard.

jdemaris · Post by **jdemaris** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:17 am

Paul Buhler wrote:I'm curious, On winch brake bands I've had good results a number of times burning off soaked oil with a welding torch. I take the band to a metal table (55gal drum on end) so I don't have to

We did it often at the last Deere dealership I worked at. It often worked fine. Now, if we had a crawler all torn to pieces - we absolutley would not do it unless the owner requested it and waived the repair warranty. Cleaning up old steering clutches as well as brake bands often works fine - but it's does pay to do so in professional shop that has to warranty its work.

With winches - we did it will all crawlers. Deere had so many $200 brake bands getting soaked with oil - especially with the 3325 winches - we couldn' t justify replacing brake bands that were oil-soaked but not worn.
Deere had a badly designed brake-release piston and many leaked.
Basically, we found this. Deere used the same basic winch and same brake band on 350s, 450s, and also 440 and 540 Skidders. But . . . crawlers usually only pulled 2-4 logs at time, whereas skidders might pull 6-10 or more down the skidway. So, we "cooked" the brake bands for crawlers - but not for skidders unless the owner insisted. I had to put the torch to many - out in the woods - to get a winch going again.

Those winches can last a lot longer if treated like steering-clutch housings. Pull the plug once in awhile and drain before it fills up with either water or oil and trashes the clutches and brake band. Even a small leak will eventually fill up the housing if the oil has no where to go.

Paul Buhler · Post by **Paul Buhler** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:31 pm

Thanks for the reminder about closed drums - I was thinking about the rain barrel that I over turn and didn't clarify.
Thanks too for the other insights. I know that sometimes sweat equity is more readily available than cash, meaning that I've made some repairs that I knew I'd have to redo at a later date, and sometimes (but not often) I've gotten lucky and my repair lasted longer than expected. I'm not endorsing cobbling things together, but I remember adding a steering clutch disc and metal to a worn 350 pack because I couldn't afford to replace the set expecting to have to "do it right" the next summer; well it lasted two years at which time I had the money and prior experience to do it right quickly.
I'm also at a point where I'm not using my machine to make money and don't need it on a regular basis. Jdemaris and others speak with a lot more repair experience than I have so when talking about a working machine, I'll defer to their opinions.

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:55 pm

Was jsut wondering if you got your brake problem or charging problems figured out.
Bob

Paul Buhler · Post by **Paul Buhler** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:09 pm

I "fixed" my winch by cleaning both brake bands with soap and ammonia solution , then washing down, sandpapered the drums, and cleaning with brake cleaner and paper towels. I followed by cooking the bands with an acetelyne torch as described previously. I then adjusted them as described in the manual so that I didn't get a birdnest during freespool, yet the two bands work as expected during spool in and under load.

I'm curious too how the steering brake project is progressing. Paul

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420 clutch/ ammeter

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