Priming system for a 2010

robotmaker · Post by **robotmaker** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:42 pm

Lavoy (and all),
I remember here awhile back where someone gave us the poop on a company that made an injector setup which would aid in getting these deisel engines started. It was "Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co." I see where they have a few different devices available, but from their product descriptions, can't really tell how many of the parts they have are needed in placing them on my 2010. I see where you had asked about this product in one message and I guess the main question is, what parts do I need to get from them, and did you ever get one (system) installed?
thanks.
rj

Tigerhaze · Post by **Tigerhaze** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:56 pm

This was the first part of that discussion:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... highlight=

Here is the discussion I think you are looking for (you have to scroll halfway down):

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... 7&start=15

Eric.MacLeod · Post by **Eric.MacLeod** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:58 pm

hello im not sure if this is what you need but i have had a ton of snomobiles that have had primers on them, you could go to a snowmobile shop im sure the would have one dirt cheap the older ones had them. they mount in the dashboard and all you needed was one or two pumps this put the fuel into the intake, just a thought,, if you cant find one let me know and i will get you one.. Eric

jdemaris · Post by **jdemaris** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:46 pm

robotmaker wrote:Lavoy (and all),
I remember here awhile back where someone gave us the poop on a company that made an injector setup which would aid in getting these deisel engines started. It was "Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co." I see where they have a few different devices available, but from their product descriptions, can't really tell how many of the parts they have are needed in placing them on my 2010. I see where you had asked about this product in one message and I guess the main question is, what parts do I need to get from them, and did you ever get one (system) installed?
thanks.
rj

I originally posted the info. I only mentioned the aircraft supply place because that is where Deere gets the part, and it's 1/2 the price if you buy direct.

The primer was a cold-start option from John Deere. So, not all 2010s had it, especially those bought in warm areas. You need a way to hook the primer to the fuel tank and to the intake manifold. You can see all the parts at JD Parts Website.

I'll add that the primer I mentioned is what is used as OEM so it will look original for anybody that cares. However, there are many hand-operated diesel fuel primers available aftermarket, some only around $50. I've got half a dozen of them listed in my Spaco diesel parts catalog. Some were used on Allis Chalmers, Cummins, Buda, IH, Cat, etc.

robotmaker · Post by **robotmaker** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:38 am

I just searched JDParts and can't seem to find the illustrations which show this system. Would you have a link to that so I can see how this all goes together? Would it be in either the parts manual or service manual for the 2010?
rj

Tigerhaze · Post by **Tigerhaze** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:15 am

RJ-

I believe that the parts manual for the 2010 shows the various primer components, but doesn't necessarily show the exact connections between the parts.

The Essex primer information that Jdemaris provided is in the second link of my last post.

robotmaker · Post by **robotmaker** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:28 pm

Thanks to all. I found the primer information in the parts catalog. At least I can now see how it goes together. I assume since Deere implemented these things (or were an option at best) to aid in cold weather starting, does anyone have any feedback on if it really does help? My batteries are always charged, the battery cables are the best money can buy (welding cable) and I beleive all the glow plugs are working, so if this thing will help it start easier when it gets cold out like it is now (low 30's) I would be happy to hear about it...
thanks again to all who answered.
rj

Stretch · Post by **Stretch** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:30 pm

I rebuilt my 2010 dozer a couple of years ago. The primer was not working so I removed it. I put a new set of glow plugs in and and the old girl starts up fine. Even when it gets down in the single digits.
All I do is roll the motor over for a couple of seconds then hit the glow plugs for about 30 seconds then start. The ole girl will usually fire right up. Sometimes I will hit the plugs again after she starts to get her to clear up.
I am in the process of putting together the engine in the 2010 loader and it has the primer. I think I am going to put it back together with the primer and see if there is any difference.
Hope this helps.
Stretch

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:24 pm

yes primers do help with starting if you dont have one you can also set the throttle to full and start that way with the preheaters just make sure you back it down when she fires and preheat till it runs smooth as for using the cheaper pumps other than the oem style (kohler) they dont have the positive shut off when down all the way turned and locked mine did not get shut off all the way once and i ended up with a cylinder full of diesel. as for hooking one up you have to have the intake manifold set up for a primer and then just use 1/4" fuel hose and fittings from any auto parts store

jdemaris · Post by **jdemaris** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:33 pm

robotmaker wrote:Thanks to all. I found the primer information in the parts catalog. At least I can now see how it goes together. I assume since Deere implemented these things (or were an option at best) to aid in cold weather starting, does anyone have any feedback on if it really does help? My batteries are always charged, the battery cables are the best money can buy (welding cable) and I beleive all the glow plugs are working, so if this thing will help it start easier when it gets cold out like it is now (low 30's) I would be happy to hear about it...
thanks again to all who answered.
rj

Depends on several factors as not all 2010s are the same. They vary by condition and also vary by injection systems. 2010 diesels used several different injection pumps over the years of production. Some of the injection pumps, if they haven't been altered, don't pump enough fuel at cranking speed for good cold starting, thus the primer. Keep in mind that the 2010 was the first John Deere to ever use the Stanadyne rotary injection pump and the early ones, especially in 1960, were very crude on a relative scale.

With some 2010s, even in perfect mechanical condition, a fuel-primer makes a night-and-day different when starting in very colds temps. When these machines were still being used on a daily basis, our logging customer always had the primers. Farmers didn't usually need them since they had electricity to run block heaters.

So, seems it's up to you and your indivual machine -in regard if it's worth having. Some 2010s, even when new wouldn't even think of starting at temps below 20F without the primer.

There was a guy at the YT forum awhile ago (I'm assuming it wasn't you). He'd just gotten a 2010 crawler, put glow plugs in, but was having trouble with cold starting. I asked him about the primer and he said he'd taking it off and thrown it in the garbage (not knowing what it was). When I told him what they cost and what it does, he retrieved and installed. He reposted - and at least in his case - he said it made a huge difference.

2010s are close to 50 years old, so I assume many if not most have been worked, reworked, updated, altered, etc. So, it's hard to make blanket statements about all of them. Some cold start fine, some don't. Even when new, some started great and some did not. Not much different with 350s and 450s either.

If you're sure the all the glow plugs are working and it runs OK once it's starter, you can try this. Just get a Windex spray bottle or eqivalent, and next time you want to cold start - spray a mist of diesel fuel directly into the intake manifold (not the air cleaner). If it starts much better - that you can say for sure the primer will help a lot.

As I said earlier, many diesels that tend to sit out in the cold away from electricity use hand primer pumps, especially military diesels. There are many types or primers available and some a lot cheaper than the version Deere used.

jdemaris · Post by **jdemaris** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:45 pm

jtrichard wrote: as for using the cheaper pumps other than the oem style (kohler) they dont have the positive shut off when down all the way turned and locked

Deere didn't just use the Kohler primers, they used Essex branded units also. Both look and work the same. In fact, many of the primers that say "Kohler" on them were actually made by Essex Precision Controls Inc. Also, there are other makes of hand-push primers that cost less but have all the same functions. Some have shorter strokes and don't push as much fuel, though.

robotmaker · Post by **robotmaker** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:05 am

I went ahead and ordered that primer kit from Aircraft Spruce Co. The price is certainly right, but it looks like it's made of plastic. I will give it a try and report back to the board if it works or not. It makes you wonder if that $18.95 price compared to the $166 or the $88 they want for the metal versions will stand up.
I'll let you guys know.
rj

ps. has anyone else ordered that $18.95 kit? any success with it?

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:47 pm

I think that kit is just the fitting and hoses as for the other pumps i would not take a chance that they are not positive shut off pumps like the kohler style and with the fuel tank being above the engine if it does not shut off completly it will fill the intake and a cylinder with fuel then if you crank it you could bend a rod ITS NOT WORTH IT hope this helps

jdemaris · Post by **jdemaris** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:22 am

robotmaker wrote:I went ahead and ordered that primer kit from Aircraft Spruce Co. The price is certainly right, but it looks like it's made of plastic. I will give it a try and report back to the board if it works or not. It makes you wonder if that $18.95 price compared to the $166 or the $88 they want for the metal versions will stand up.
I'll let you guys know.
rj

ps. has anyone else ordered that $18.95 kit? any success with it?

I've never seen the kit installed but I'm curious to see how it works out. It's amazing what they can come out with in plastic nowadays. Along as that little primer pump has spring-loaded check-valves, it should not allow fuel to run freely from the tank to the engine unless you pump and pressurize it. Those primers usually have check valves that need at least 2-3 PSI to open,and gravity feed won't do that. If in doubt, just add an in-line shut off valve.

Tigerhaze · Post by **Tigerhaze** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:51 pm

RJ-

Please let us know how that works out- my machine is not original anyhow so if that kit works for you then I may try it as well- sorry to let you be the guinea pig

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