Priming system for a 2010

robotmaker · Post by **robotmaker** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:58 pm

Hey gang. I don't mind doing the testing. One thing that does concern me tho, I contacted Aircraft Spruce and gave them some details on what I wanted to do and asked what products they had in stock that they would recommend for my application. All they did was send me the page from the catalog (stuff I saw online already) and pretty much said pick one. Not much help from the factory. I am a little leary of how long the $18 device will last. I see why they get the bigger bucks for the metal units.

On this same subject, how much fuel needs to be pumped in to be effective? I will measure how much each pump cycle puts out, but I would imagine that too little fuel won't do much good, and too much fuel is just as bad eh?
rj

Eric.MacLeod · Post by **Eric.MacLeod** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:45 pm

dont worry about it being plastic, a skidoo snowmobile lives in the cold and they dont break there fuel primers and they must have check balls because a snowmobile wouldnt run sucking raw fuel into it, these would cost ten to twenty bucks at most,,Eric

Tigerhaze · Post by **Tigerhaze** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:56 pm

robotmaker wrote:On this same subject, how much fuel needs to be pumped in to be effective? I will measure how much each pump cycle puts out, but I would imagine that too little fuel won't do much good, and too much fuel is just as bad eh?
rj

Hi RJ-

The operator's manual for the 2010 specifies a certain number of strokes based on the ambient temperature; I would have to look at the manual to tell you how many and for what temperatures.

However the primer you will be using is a different size than the Essex primer, so the number of strokes probably isn't the same due to size difference between the primers. I would think that it isn't super critical on the number of strokes, but maybe it is a 2:1 ratio for the new primer versus the Essex?

jdemaris · Post by **jdemaris** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:03 am

robotmaker wrote:
On this same subject, how much fuel needs to be pumped in to be effective? I will measure how much each pump cycle puts out, but I would imagine that too little fuel won't do much good, and too much fuel is just as bad eh?
rj

I think you're going to have to find out by trial-and-error. Keep in mind that the engine has no vacuum, so it's not able to suck much fuel in - it's basically has to flow like a little diesel-fuel creek inside the intake manifold, or - enter by air if it somehow gets atomized.

Funny thing is, it's kind of amazing how little fuel is actually injected, inside the combustion chamber, at cranking speed.

The Stanadyne-Roosamaster pump is very sensitive to wear since it only uses one little pump (two plungers) to make fuel for all the cylinders. Quite different than an in-line pump that has a separate pump for each cylinder.

The 2010 agricultural system pumps less fuel at cranking than the industrial 2010. So, in theory, and industrial 2010 should be a better starter, but I guess it's was assumed more industrial tractors get parked out in the cold with no electricity nearby - thus the higher fuel delivery at cranking speed.

2010 ag, at starter motor cranking speed, has the pump turning 50 RPM (which equals 100 engine RPM). One minute's cranking equals 12 cc's of fuel in total. That is 2 1/2 teaspoons of diesel fuel used for an entire mintue's worth of cranking.

2010 industrial at starter motor cranking speed injects, in total, 3 teaspoons in one minute.

That's not much fuel. You can see, that if a rotary pump even gets a little worn, it will really show up at low speeds when cranking and make starting very difficult. It's also the reason why worn pumps result in machines that will not start at all when hot. When a pump gets hot, and all the metal parts expand, the wear is worse and there is more leakage when good and hot.
So, a hot diesel engine, in itself starts well, but a worn hot pump gets to a point it won't pump fuel until it cools at cranking speed. That's why some people have to pour cold water on their pumps to get them to start when hot. Very common with GM diesels in Humvees in Iraq. They use the same basic pump as the 2010, but in a V8 instead of a four cylinder engine.

From those figures, you can see that it wouldn't take much more fuel to help cold starting but . . . geting it into the engine combustion chamber is not very easy.

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:17 pm

Hi guys the fuel gets atomized in the intake there are spray nozzles where the intake meets the head it your 2010 did not have a primer before you will need to get another intake manifold that is setup for the primer and has the parts in it hope this helps

jdemaris · Post by **jdemaris** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:45 am

jtrichard wrote:Hi guys the fuel gets atomized in the intake there are spray nozzles where the intake meets the head it your 2010 did not have a primer before you will need to get another intake manifold that is setup for the primer and has the parts in it hope this helps

Yes, but he's not getting any spray nozzles in the kit he ordered.

Only the early 2010s had intake manifolds that came two ways. After serial # 26198, all the intake manifolds were all drilled for primers, regardless if the option was installed or not.

Not a big deal anyway. They can all be drilled and modified. Deere originally used little spray jets (T17563) and later only sold them with filter-screens attached (assembly # AT15962).

For somebody installing a primer now, you can use modern T-Jet or equivalent sprayer nozzles used for crop spraying. Cheap and easy to find - nozzles with screens. Any tractor store e.g. Tractor Supply Co. has them on the shelf.

robotmaker · Post by **robotmaker** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:14 am

My intake manifold has a tapped hole in it located on the bottom about 1/3 of the way back from the front and the fitting it has on there now has just been hammered closed. Can I just screw in a fitting and attach the tubing from the primer pump? I see you have mentioned using a jet? Will that be necessary?
rj

robotmaker · Post by **robotmaker** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:29 am

Got my pump yesterday. Fast shipping at least. It is not plastic. It is a metal body, and aparently has check valves in it because I can't blow back thru the outlet port. The only thing plastic about it is the plunger knob. Stand by, I will let you know how it goes with installation. I am still waiting for some information if I need a nozzle on the end where it goes into the intake manifold.
rj

Post by **Lavoy** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:58 am

The inlet for the primer is on the bottom of the manifold, at least it is on the 1010. Then a tube goes up through the manifold to the top, and from there, two lines run out to nozzles at the intake port of the manifold right next to the head.
Lavoy

robotmaker · Post by **robotmaker** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:04 am

Thanks Lavoy... it looks like I will have to rip off the intake manifold to verify that all that stuff is in there. I looked at the setup in the parts manual, but don't remember if all that was shown. I will have to verify it when I get home.
rj

jdemaris · Post by **jdemaris** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:36 pm

robotmaker wrote:My intake manifold has a tapped hole in it located on the bottom about 1/3 of the way back from the front and the fitting it has on there now has just been hammered closed. Can I just screw in a fitting and attach the tubing from the primer pump? I see you have mentioned using a jet? Will that be necessary?
rj

As I previously described, it will be much more effective if the fuel gets atomized through some sort of nozzle. The engine has little vacuum and does not pull in liquid fuel into itself very easy. Atomized fuel in the air travels much better. The original nozzles that Deere used are similar to what is used now in farm crop spraying equipment. Very easy to get and cheap. Most farm stores keep the nozzles of many sizes in stock. Deere also uses something similar in the later 350s for ether injection.

robotmaker · Post by **robotmaker** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:27 pm

BINGO! That primer from Spruce works like a charm. It even came with fittings to tap into the fuel line (mine is already been replaced with the rubber fuel hose). Connected it up, pumped it a few times till I saw the fuel going into the bottom of the intake manifold and felt some resistance and then pumped it 3 more times. Hit the glow plugs for about 10 seconds and the old girl roared to life.
thanks for all who gave me guidance.
Hope this helps someone else.
rj

Post by **Lavoy** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:55 pm

Which primer did you end up buying from them?
Lavoy

robotmaker · Post by **robotmaker** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:24 pm

I got the one for $18.95 plus shipping which brought it to under 30 bucks. Not a bad deal. The unit is made in the USA (stamped on it) and chrome plated (body) with a black plastic button on the end where you push/pull, and it's even labeled "PRIMER" in white. It's not leaking past it either after the engine is started. Came with enough tubing and fittings. I'm happy.
rj

Post by **Lavoy** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:49 pm

Which part number, I think I will try one on my 1010.
Lavoy

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