440 Idler Wheel Alignment

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jac
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440 Idler Wheel Alignment

Post by jac » Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:52 pm

Have not posted in a while but my 440 ICD has been pretty healthy since my rebuild. Was using it today to skid trees out from a December ice storm in NY, what a mess. I am having one small isssue. Getting significant wear on the left side of my left side idler wheel. I was looking at the manual to align this and this is what they state.


Shims are provided on each side at the rear of
track idler bracket to properly adjust position of
track on front idler . Remove one shim at a tim e
from the rear of idler bracket (Figure 200-5-5) o n
the side of idler flange and track link having th e
least clearance .


This seems reversed to me. I would have guessed that I should remove a shim from the opposite side to pull the idler over to get more clearance. Should I take shims out of the left side or right side of the bracket.

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Lavoy
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Post by Lavoy » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:05 pm

I would check trackframe alignment first.
Lavoy

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jac
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Post by jac » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:22 pm

Thanks Lavoy. How is that done? Is there a specific point to measure and adjust? I do not see anything in the manual except removing shims.

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Post by Lavoy » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:42 am

Assuming the back end of the trackframes are centered on the sprocket, measure between the trackframes as far back as you can. Then measure between them at the front end. Make sure you a measuring off of the same point front to rear, and side to side. The flat plate welded into the C channel is a good place to measure. You can also measure
C to C on the sprockets and the idlers for a quick reference.
Lavoy

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jac
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Post by jac » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:45 am

Lavoy:

Thanks. I will check this out. I recall making sure the sprockets were centered relative to the frames when I did my rebuild but will recheck everything. The right side track seems to run true so I am hoping this is a left side only alignment. I think I will just jack the machine up and align and then run the tracks to check that everything is running true. Where the machine is currently located, it is not as "servicable" as when I did my rebuild.

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jac
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No Luck

Post by jac » Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:02 pm

Ok, spent the day trying to fix this alignment issue, no luck. :( Measured the track alignment on both sides and as best as I can tell, they are both the same. I also looked at the upper support idler/roller and the clearances to the track looks good. Sprocket also does not show any excessive wear. Next, I tried adding and removing shims to both the inside idler bracket and the outside idler bracket, NOTHING. I added and removed up to 10 shims and the front idler is still rubbbing on the outside. There is a 3/8 gap between the idler and the track on the inside so this is way out of alignment.

Suggestions? Could the idler itself have a problem? I was thinking about taking the track off and the idler off and checking it out.

jdemaris

Re: 440 Idler Wheel Alignment

Post by jdemaris » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:37 pm

jac wrote:Have not posted in a while but my 440 ICD has been pretty healthy since my rebuild. Was using it today to skid trees out from a December ice storm in NY, what a mess. I am having one small isssue. Getting significant wear on the left side of my left side idler wheel. I was looking at the manual to align this and this is what they state.


Shims are provided on each side at the rear of
track idler bracket to properly adjust position of
track on front idler . Remove one shim at a tim e
from the rear of idler bracket (Figure 200-5-5) o n
the side of idler flange and track link having th e
least clearance .


This seems reversed to me. I would have guessed that I should remove a shim from the opposite side to pull the idler over to get more clearance. Should I take shims out of the left side or right side of the bracket.
I think you're reading it backwards from what Deere intended in the manual. You take out shims on the opposite side of where the FRONT of the idler wheel is rubbing. The book is not referring to the front, it is referring to the back of the wheel. If you take out shims on the same side as the place with least clearance at the back of the wheel, it is the same as the opposite side at the front of the wheel.

So, yes, it IS reversered.

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jac
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Post by jac » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:06 pm

Thanks for the clarification. Based on my attempts yesterday, adding or removing shims does not seem to change the alignment and I added and removed a lot of shims (10). I worked boths side independently. Idler is still touching the track links on the outer side. I did all this with the machine on jack stands thinking this would allow the tracks to realign as best as possible. I made the adjustments and then ran the tracks for a minute. No matter what I tried with the shims, idler did not really move and alignment was off.

Only thing I can think of is that the idler has a lot of play on the shaft, possibly worn bushings or something else is throwing this way off???? I even ran a 4' metal rule down the track frame to see if it was bent, looked fine.

jdemaris

Post by jdemaris » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:58 pm

jac wrote:Thanks for the clarification. Based on my attempts yesterday, adding or removing shims does not seem to change the alignment and I added and removed a lot of shims (10).
Having a loose idler wheel is not going to cause the problem. There are two ways to be out of alignment. One is when the the plane or centerline of the wheel is not in the same plane as the track - i.e. they are not parallel to each other. For that, you adjust by shims of either side of that idler. But, you can be in the SAME plane, but have the wheel off too much to side or the other. That is kind of rare. Possible causes can be a bent/bowed track frame, or the complete track frame assembly is not centered on the rear drive sprocket. That is usually the first adjustment to be checked, not the last.

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jac
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Post by jac » Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:45 pm

Thanks for the information. I will recheck all the track frame measurements to see if I missed something relative to the frame alignment. I will also recheck the alignment relative to being centered on the sprocket.

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Lavoy
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Post by Lavoy » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:13 am

John,
Running on stands may not be the best deal. To check alignment, run the crawler in a straight line on lever ground without turning for maybe 100" or so. Push in the clutch and coast to a stop, then see what the alignment looks like.
Lavoy

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jac
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Post by jac » Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:18 am

Lavoy:

Thanks. I was starting to worry about this as well since when I took the machine off the jack stands and drove it back to the shed, the alignment changed a little. That involved some turning so that was not a good test.

The plan now is to repeat all the alignment measurements to make sure I did not miss anything and then find a flat area to drive on and recheck alignment. I have a lot of idler shims removed right now on one side so something should change. If nothing changes, I may think about taking one shim out at the front cross bar support. That may pull the idler over a little? I also want to recheck the track frame again just to be sure it is not bent...I need a longer straight edge to do that. Basic stuff that I guess I should have checked more carefully when I did my rebuild.

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jac
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Post by jac » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:11 pm

OK, remeasured all the alignment and while not exactly the same as the good side, it is VERY close. I split the track and removed the idler. I think I found the problem. The alignment must have been bad for along time and the idler is worn such that there is a large thickness ridge on the idler. With this ridge, the track does not want to run up onto the thicker part of the idler. Here is a picture.Image

The rusty looking area on the left side is a lot thicker than the shiny part. The track was that far misaligned. You can also see the the right side of the idler has been rubbing and is thinner.

So, I can try building this all back up with the welder or get another idler.

Suggestions!

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Post by Lavoy » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:36 pm

As long as it is running true, that really should not hurt anything.
Lavoy

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Paul Buhler
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Post by Paul Buhler » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:47 pm

How thin can the vertical parts of the front idler get before they're too thin; how thin can the idler faces (the part that the chain rides on) get before they're too thin?

I'm sure that an answer will be it depends on how rough it's used, and the soil conditions, but I'm trying to figure out if I need to be concerned about breakage do to a shock load since I think that my idlers are getting close to the end of their life. Thanks
Paul Buhler
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420c 5 roll with 62 blade, FOPS, and Gearmatic 8a winch

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