440IC can't get spark

[Lu47Dan]

Tim, one more thing to check is the insulators on the stud that the wire from the coil attaches to. I had fits with a friends tractor that would not start. He had replaced the points and condenser in it and the tractor would not start after that. I fought with it for a couple of hours before I did a step by step diagnoses of the problem. I found the problem after stripping the points and condenser out of the distributor and testing the wire from the coil. He had to make the insulators as we could not find replacements for them. The insulators were cracked and rust had infiltrated the crack short circuiting the points.
You can check the insulator by disconnecting the points and condenser, the wire from the coil, and then using a test light to see if they are bad. If the test light lights then there is a path to ground and the insulators need replaced.
If you have a spare battery you can wire the the coil and the distributor to it and see if the engine will start. I used this trick while recovering a tractor with bad wiring form the middle of a friends woodlot. The wiring harness was junk and the flood waters were rising towards the tractor. We had to get it out of there and when he called for help I grabbed a small lawn and garden battery, a couple test cables, and head out to his place. By the time we got back to the tractor I had to stand in water to wire the battery in, once that was done the tractor started up and he drove it out. Since then he has replaced the wiring harness and has had no farther problems with it.
Good luck.
Dan.

[Tim_in_IA]

Well I finally got back to the crawler project. Yesterday I converted it to a 12volt negative electrical system complete with a pertronix ignition and flame thrower coil. i also fitted it with a 10SI 110amp alternator.

As I was trying to start it it seemed to almost fire once but then didn't do it again. I am wondering now if my ground is making it to the spark plugs. I'll try working with that.

Couple questions.

1. The flame thrower has internal resistance of 3 ohms so I am not sure if I need external ballast with a 2 cylinder?

2. For the coil it gets power at the + terminal but do I also need to run a ground to the - terminal on the coil? i have one run there.

The electronic ignition is connected to the proper terminals on the coil. I am going to try and attach some pictures or link to the pictures here.

http://gallery.flynnhome.com/index.php/ ... page=1&_=2

The ignition came with a new sleeve to go through the distributor wall so that can be ruled out now too. So now I have all new parts except for the plugs. I am going to take the plugs out and make sure they are clean. New gas, carb was rebuilt. Working on new gauges and switch setup.

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[Lavoy]

Tim,
Been a while since I did one, but I think the one wire does go to ground. No other resistor needed, the coil is fine. Make sure you plug wires are good, and the plugs. Double check the install instructions in the kit to make sure you did not miss anything.
Lavoy

[Tim_in_IA]

I found this:

http://www.ttalk.info/Tech/pertronix_igniters.htm


I should be able to reliably test each component now. this thing is screaming a grounding issue to me at this point. It looks like the baseplate of the pertronix needs a good ground also. i know when I was taking readings yesterday that at different parts of the crawler ground reading was radically different. Surprising for a big piece of metal that a crawler is but I guess it can happen. Time to sand off some paint

[Tim_in_IA]

http://www.flynnhome.com/440ic_running.wmv



Guys I don't know what to tell ya. I went through all the tests and everything checked out. Grounding was good, the plugs sparked. The sun was shining on me.

So I ran it for a short bit. A couple observations. The exhaust manifold got hot quick and smoked and there was a decent amount of backfire and smoke coming out the carb when it shut off. So I am assuming it is out of time? I think there was a pinging noise from time to time. Can you guys watch the video above and listen to the sound and give me some tips? So glad to hear it run again!!

[Lavoy]

Hard to tell from the video, sounds are always different recorded then in person in a situation like this. I would check timing to be safe, no sense burning something up.
Lavoy

[JD440ICD2006]

I agree that the sound on video does not tell much, especially at just one RPM setting.
What I just noticed is that your distributor is 180 off (pictures you posted earler). If you have the JD Service Manual SM-2023, look at Figure 80-5-3.
If you do not have this manual, let me know and I will post a picture of the way it should be.
You do have the correct distributor cap.

[Tim_in_IA]

What I just noticed is that your distributor is 180 off (pictures you posted earler).
You do have the correct distributor cap.

I noticed this also but I was hesitant to change it since that's the way it was when I bought it. I have never timed an engine before so I guess I just move it and then make slight adjustments? I have all the manuals. I just need to read through the timing section again. I didn't know if I needed a timing light or not.

[Lu47Dan]

Tim, using a timing light before adjusting anything would tell you where the timing is set now. I can time my Super-H tractor with my light and it will run but not real well, it takes some timing by ear and testing to get it set to the optimum settings.
My timing light was bought in 1984 and is still in use today, it is not a fancy one but on the older equipment you do not need all the fancy stuff.
One more thing, if the timing is not off then adjust the carburetor, the exhaust manifold getting real hot might be telling you the engine is running lean.
Dan

[Tim_in_IA]

I got a simple timing light from autozone over lunch today. It very well could be running lean since i rebuilt the carb and it might not be adjusted right. While I did have it running if I tried to ease open the choke or up the gas it would die.

[CELSESSER]

Tim,
Sounds like it may be running too lean if you can't open the choke without killing it. Which carb does it have and how did you adjust it?
Go down a dosen or so items in the Early model forum to 420 carb and use those starting settings if the carb number is higher than that one. If it is an earlier carb (Lower number) the second adjustment on the power needle May be 1/2 turn instead of 1 full turn. depends on which carb it is.
As stated in that responce the idle adjustment is an air adjustment so if you open the needle you make it leaner. this can mess you up if you are thinking it is the amount of fuel that you are changing. If it will not adjust then you may still have a partially plugged jet in the carb.

Chuck

[Tim_in_IA]

I adjusted the carb and it did help quite a bit but ran out of time before I could time it. I could get it running smooth but under load it would die quickly. Also when I put the new radiator in it came with an overflow connector which I haven't installed (The overflow res) so radiator fluid started shooting out that. I ended up pulling it home so I can work on it more easily and be closer to all the tools.

I'll try to get it timed tonight. Should I rotate it 180 degrees and then start with the manual timing procedure and then continue with the timing light? I'm not sure if there is a reason that they would have had it in there like that.

Also only reverse and 1 or 2 foward gears seem to really work. I think a new clutch is in my future.

[JD440ICD2006]

If if dies under load, it is still starving for extra fuel. You may end up pulling the carb back off and going back through it. Make sure the bowl is set correctly. That is where your "extra fuel" comes from when it goes under load and needs a more gas quickly. It is difficult at times to get all of the circuits cleaned out, typically "soaking" in anything will not always do it. You have to run a wire or something through them that will clean out the crud while not damaging or altering the passages.
I would go through the service manual and set the distributor up as they state. Not sure why JD had it set like that but it sure makes it easier down the road as everything matches the service manual.
You may or may not need a clutch or an adjustment, but the gears working are a function of what is going on in the tranny.
Having it "closer to the tools" I can relate to, and it does make thing go much easier.