Potential 420 Restoration Ques

[jdjohng]

I recently had the opportunity to load mine onto a car hauler using a hand come along. It wasn't bad at all. The most important thing was getting lined up straight. to unload I just used a pin bar on each side and put through the holes in the track pads and "walked" it to the ramps. Once it starts moving watch out.

[fishhawk]

well just joind this forum today and from what i see i'm going to like it here! got a 440 that needs to be taken out of service and work started on it in the spring if it take a few years to get it back in shape so be it spreading the cost out over a couple years doesn't hurt as bad but at least i got the stumps out with it this summer

[Skidder]

Well, my brother can line up a hauler, I've figured out a place to work on it, and my Pa says he'll help finance some of the work. Now to talk the current owner out of it.

[Lavoy]

Good luck, hope you get it. One word of caution, don't go overboard just because it is close and convenient. They are not that hard to get shipped around, so it is not worth paying an extra $2000 for one that is close to you when you may be able to find a better machine, or a cheaper one a little farther away.
Let us know how you make out.
Lavoy

[Skidder]

I contacted the owner about the 420. It has only been parked for 2 years and he is willing to sell it. He originally purchased it for $2,100 (not sure how long ago and I asume it worked at that time) and said to make an offer. I first have to figure out what on it works and doesn't work.

Once the weather warms up above absolute zero I plan on seeing if my brother and I can get it running (battery, lubricants, spark, free pistons, etc.) and find out what kind of work it will need from there (are the steering clutches free, hydraulic work, etc.?). It's hard to make any kind of an offer without finding out how much work it may need. I don't think he wants to give it away at this point, but I'm not willing to give him much for it if I'll have to put another 3k into it to make it run.

My next step will be to secure a manual and research the message board for any helpful information on the 420.

I'll keep you all posted.

[Lavoy]

I personally would not try to lowball him too much. If his starting point in his mind is $2100, unless there is substantial damage not visible in the pics, it is worth that dead.
I would also caution you again about what you are going to have to put in to it to get it running. I bought a crawler recently for way more than he paid for that one, with several thousand dollars of work done prior to my getting it. I backed it into the shop, and it absorbed another $2000 before I ever got to play with it, and I am not talking paint or trinkets.
Lavoy

[Howard Yoder]

I agree with Lavoy that it probably is worth the $2100 since it still has headlights on it and the sheet meatal looks fairly strait other then the breather cap and muffler. Tracts look tight but check the bushings on it. It will be all most impossible to check the bottom rollers out but I have seen them in a lot worse condition but pictures sometimes are deceiving.

[Skidder]

Going to see if my brother and I can get the old crawler fired up this friday. It ran and operated fine when parked, but it has been setting for 2-3 years. We'll do the normal things like check the fluids, pop the plugs and make sure the cylinders aren't rusted up, run new gas in it, and bring a charged 6v battery. Any other problems we should plan on that we can work around? First goal is to see if we can get it started. Second goal is to see if we can get it to move. I'll be happy if goal number one is accomplished.

I ran into a person who has restored an MC along with a few other wheeled tractors. I think I'll see if he is free that afternoon to come and help. I don't have a manual, and the only dozer I've driven was a little newer than this one.

Can anyone give me any information on the blade? It does pin to right and left angles (or at least it used to). What kind of advantages/disadvantages does being mounted outside the frame have vs. inside? Is this a common blade arrangement?

I'll be reading through old posts this week (and the last few weeks) to try and put together a shoping list of parts to inspect on the crawler (parts that may be overly worn and need replacing). Any tips on parts to look at would be greatly appreciated. I know, this leaves a lot of topics that could be covered. Also kind of difficult without being able to stand there looking at it, but any help is good help.

Once I get a better idea on what condition the crawler is currently in, the price negociations can begin after that.

Thanks for everyone's help thus far. I don't care what those red tractor fans say about you. You guys are great!

[ggfossen]

Skidder,

There are many on this forum much more knowledgeable than I about the mechanics of these beasts, but I'm in the process of tinkering up a '56 420. It has an old holt blade with the yoke on the outside of the tracks. This unit spent most of it's life in the woods skidding and such. From the looks of the outside blade frames, they saved the poor little crawler from a whole lot of serious damage. That might be one of the advantages to an outside blade yoke.

The tracks were sacked out pretty badly, so I located some good 350 chains and pads, and the 350 sprockets. I made up a couple of adaptor plates with bolt patterns for both the 420 hubs, and the 350 sprockets. They seem to mount well, but I won't know how well they work until I'm up and running.

I just finished installing the second final. The track will go on in the morning, and then the motor will come off, and into the shop. I don't think it needs much work, but I want to look into it just in case.

This is not a serious restoration, but is getting painted...with rattle cans. I found that the Ace brand JD green is really close to the original, but may fade to a different shade. The only yellow that I have found is JD, and it's spendy.

I have had to contend with a lot of frozen, and broken, bolts. A lot of time spent removing pieces, and re-threading. Some of it takes welding and drilling. The last one to break was a fan bolt. Much penetrating oil is in order. Some torch heat has been needed.

I did manage to replace the one useless track tension bolt with a piece of threaded rod. The shop had two hardnesses available. I went with the tougher stuff. I think it was about 14 bucks for the rod, and I welded an old nut on the end to head it. It seems to work well.

I replaced all the pad bolts with regular grade 8 bolts, and not the JD kind. I think grade 5 could be used, and it would be a bit cheaper.

I bought a clutch gauge from Lavoy, and he was correct...they were not set properly. A good use of 10 bucks. I did, though, have to mess with the adjustment bolts on the bench. I took the pressure off them with a C-clamp, and then worked them loose slowly. Had I simply horsed on them, they would have broke.

I'm doing much more tinkering than most can afford the time to do, but I am finding that I can salvage a lot of the original parts. Much welding and grinding and generally messing around.

If I needed the unit for work, and if I were not retired, I would simply spend more money for more parts. I guess it's a trade-off as so many things are.

Good luck with your project.

Gary

[Skidder]

Well, my brother and I tore into the 420 Friday afternoon and here's how it went.

Drained the gas. Smelled like varnish and looked like off road diesel
(red). Cleaned out the sediment bowl.

Opened up the oil bath air filter. not a lot of oil, but an equal amount of water. Bowl is ok yet.

Pulled the spark plugs. Plugs look like heck. One was wet (UH OH!)

Drained the crank case to see what the heck was going on. First gallon was anti-freeze. Plugged it back up when it turned to oil. Hope the rust inhibitors are working.

Poured anti-freeze into the radiator to 1. see if it leaks and 2. see if we could tell where the anti-freeze was leaking from. I poured in about 3/4 gallons and it started comming out of the front cylinder spark plug hole quite fast. Either there is a large hole in there somewhere or quite a bit of the head gasket is gone. I fear the worst.

Hooked up the battery to see if juice would run through the electrical system. Juice to the starter, but we could only get a little noise out of it with a tap on the starter lever (on the starter). Not sure on that one, but we didn't want to dig into the crawler any further until we decide to take on the project and work out a deal with the current owner.

As it stands, the crawler will need a complete teardown. Somehow I think it has been there for more than three years and it did have problems when it was parked. In a way this is good. It will allow us the opportunity to work out any gremlins that we can't see. By the time we are done, we should have a fresh machine. My brother is going to come up with a shoping list of parts and figure out the three big factors with taking on a project: time, money, and a place to work on it.

Good news: No water from the outside in it.
Bad news: Still will need a complete tear down.

The journey continues . . .

[Lavoy]

If you are in an area that freezes, the block or head or both could be broken, maybe too badly to save. Neither is a real big issue, but figure it into your cost.
Lavoy