Single or Double hydraulic system?

jdcollector · Post by **jdcollector** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:16 am

I just picked up my first crawler, a 420. The person who sold it to me saved a 3pt set off of a 440c and later purchased a 62 blade for the crawler but never installed either of them. When I took a look at the hydraulic system on the 420 I noticed that it is only a single system. I believe that in order to run the 3pt and the 62 blade I would need a double system. Is this correct? If so, where could I find a setup for a double and what all is different about a double over a single besides the valves? Any help is greatly appreciated.

JimAnderson · Post by **JimAnderson** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:20 pm

Patrick,
The valves are the same between the 430 2 or 4 spool.The 420 4 spool
is the same as the 430 four spool.It really comes down to where the
valves are mounted.On the 2 and 4 spool 430 set they are mounted
on the fender as is the 420 4 spool set.The 2 spool 420 set is mounted
above the hydraulic tank.The valves themselves are the same but
the end plates are different.I looked for some time here and on E-bay
for a 4 spool setup before someone here offered a set.They are out
there but at least from my experiance you need to be patient.
Good luck.JimAnderson

jdcollector · Post by **jdcollector** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:43 pm

Thank you for the information Jim. I had a feeling that I was going to have to be patient. I guess before I find the 4 spool setup that mounts on the fenders I will need to find a set of fenders to mount it on...lol Thank you again for the input.

chickenman · Post by **chickenman** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:51 am

My 420C has the 4 spool setup mounted above the hydralic tank. Since it is old MS. Forestry Service dozer it may have been mounted there to keep brush and tree limbs from tearing it off while they were plowing fire lanes around wildfires.

jdcollector · Post by **jdcollector** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:23 pm

Is there any way that I could get a picture of your 4 spool setup that is mounted above the hydraulic tank? I have never seen one mounted like that.

Also, does anyone know if a delux seat will work with the 420 with a 3 pt hitch??

JimAnderson · Post by **JimAnderson** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:35 pm

Patrick,
According to the JD 20 and 30 sales brochures the deluxe seat can't
be used with the three point hitch.I guess it is to wide to clear
the hydraulic cylinder of the factory setup.
I'd like to see a four spool setup mounted above the hydraulic tank
myself.I guess you could add two more sections to the vertical setup
but the linkages might be hard to arrange.Mounted horizontally would
work but you would think that the operators station would be crowded
with levers if not mounted to the fenders.Be neat to see a picture of
the arrangement.JimAnderson

jdcollector · Post by **jdcollector** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:23 pm

Jim, thanks for the information. I do not think that the seat that is on my 420 is the correct one. It looks like the seat for a special/utility 420 as shown on pg. 90-6 in the parts catalog PC0505. I also agree with you about the linkage issue. I guess we will just have to wait and see. Any idea where I might find the correct seat frame?

jdcollector · Post by **jdcollector** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:43 pm

By the way here is the seat frame that is currently on the 420. Is it the correct frame??

Post by **Lavoy** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:03 pm

The basic seat is correct, just should not have the toplink bracket. Yes deluxe seat will work, done a few, but you will have to space it up slightly, and will not be able to slide it back all the way, or the toplink will hit it when you raise the 3PT all the way up.
I had a 420 with a stacked dual valve, worked fine, they just made a homemade lever, bracket and linkage. The bracket bolted directly to the front of the valve, the lever was fairly short, and did not have the capability for float, but it will work.
Lavoy

chickenman · Post by **chickenman** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:03 pm

I'll try to remember to shoot some pictures of the four spool set up next time I'm up at my cabin--which will be later this week or next. Don't know how to post pictures here but can email them to someone and they can post if they want to. I'm assuming it is a four spool since there's four control valves but only one lever and two hoses to control dozer blade. The rear plow used by MS. Forestery Commission was removed before they sold the crawler.

jdcollector · Post by **jdcollector** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:34 pm

You can send the pictures to me at my e-mail address and I will post them. It sounds like you do have to double setup. The dozer blade was controlled only by one valve while the rear hydraulic cylinder was controlled by the other. From the sounds of it your other set of spools are plugged since they are not hooked up. Thanks again for the help.

Pat

jdcollector · Post by **jdcollector** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:38 pm

Here are the pictures of the hydraulic valves from chickenman.

jdcollector · Post by **jdcollector** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:41 pm

I'm not sure how they were able to operate both sets of valves from the picture. I wonder if the second set was an emergency backup incase the one set quit working???

Looking at some other picture of crawlers with 3pt. setups on them I was wondering how you operate the hydraulic cylinder for the 3pt.?? Does it plug into the ports in the rear of the tractor or somewhere else??

Post by **Lavoy** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:38 pm

In the pic, the lower valve section are not connected to anything, so are not operable.
On a 3PT crawler, you tap into one pair of the outlet ports to run the hitch. Typically, they hoses loop around by the starter.
Lavoy

jdcollector · Post by **jdcollector** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:00 pm

So, looking at all the pictures that I can find with crawlers with 3pt hitches on them, I am guessing that they do not have a blade on them. They are equiped with a double hydraulic system and show the hydraulic cylinder that operates the 3pt hitch and also show a breakaway coupling system on the back of them. I'm guessing that if the tractor had a blade or loader that you would have to disconnect the breakaway system from the valves and connect them to operate the blade or bucket???? Am I making any since???

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