starting

[willy wagon]

on the 440 gase if i run 12 volts on the 6 volt starter will be hard on the bendix and maybe the flywheel because of the extra juice? thank for anyone that may have done that.

[JD440ICD2006]

Running 12 volts on a 6 volt starter will eventually cost you extra money. Even if you tenderfoot the starter, double voltage is rough on it and the ring gear.
The starter is easy to remove and repair, but imagine if you have to replace your ring gear. You will be splitting the tractor, not so easy.
You can have the starter converted to 12 volts, or you can order the field coils and armatur and do it yourself.
Now, you will likely hear about folks that have been "running 12 volts on a 6 volt for years", and they have, but it will break things.

[Ray III]

If the 6 volt battery is really dead you can jump it off a 12 volt source without beating anything up.

If the battery is just weak it is safer to charge the battery a little, then disconnect the jumper cables before starting.

If you mean converting to run on a 12 volt battery all the time... no, you don't want to do that.

[gnarles440]

Where does a guy find even a 6 volt armature,let alone convert a 50 year starter to 12volt.I have been on a quest to find a kit online for the last few day without much luck.I have two starters laying here laughing at me and I would like to get them starting again.Any info would be appreciated.

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

I don't have a lot of issues, but then I'm using the old trick of having an *eight* volt battery on board during the winter. The extra 2v gives just enough to spin the engine a tad faster in the face of the thickened oil.

You don't have to worry about the starter or generator with the extra two volts. In use, the only thing you'll see is that you have to run the RPMs up a bit higher on the engine before the generator kicks in. Once it does, it will keep the 8v battery charged just fine.

Sometimes, though, that's still not enough. So I use a 12v battery to jump it *after* I've already pulled the starter rod. That puts enough extra in to get her going.

I have a shorty set of jumper cables I attach to the starter cable nut and the engine on the right-hand side. I set a small 12v car battery on the right fender, and leave the Pos (gnd) jumper clamp loose of the 12v battery.

Then, I get on, push in the clutch and pull the starter. As it grinds slowly, I just attach the loose cable clamp to the battery post and that gets it going. Part of the 12v power is going into the starter, of course, and part into the 8v battery.

Of course, I don't leave this on for more than three seconds or so. If it won't start right away it's time to let things rest a bit before trying it again.

later!

Stan

[Gil]

That is the same thing that I do Stan. My generator guy says that in working with these starters for years, he feels that they are built so that they can take the momentary jolt of current with no problem. Of course he said he would be available to fix them in case he was wrong. But I have never had a problem. I usually carry one of those 12 volt battery booster packs when I am out in the field. Compact and light weight with no acid to spill, yet they amazingly get the job done.

Worrying about the ring gear is my major concern. Your trick about easing into the gear instead of crashing into it has always worked for me.

But for the last two years I have a different solution. I constantly keep my 6 volt batteries on one of those "Battery Minder" small chargers with float functionality. A small trickle charger will give too much of a charge over time, but the float chargers cut back their charge after the battery come up to full charge. There are a number of name brand models that handle both 6 and 12 volt systems. They sell on eBay for $20 to $40. In the winter I have a half dozen of them spread all over the place. Next summer I am trying one of the solar powered ones for tractors out away from an electrical plug.

[Lavoy]

It is highly unlikely you will find a "kit" other than bearings and brushes. 6 volt armatures are readily available, 12 volt might take a little more digging.

One thing to remember when using an 8 volt battery, if you have not altered you regulator, it will still only charge an 8 volt battery to 6 1/2 volts give or take. Once the regulator reaches set point, it will stop charging.
Lavoy

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Good point. I have a 12 volt, 2-amp float charger on a variac to keep the 8v battery up to 8v because my 6v regulator will only allow 7.2v (by meter). That would actually be close enough, but a floated battery has a much better chance of starting the old girl without resorting to the 12v booster.

The variac is an autotransformer with a knob to allow one to change the 120vac input, so I force the 12v charger to 8v by lowering it's input.

I could have also used an adjustable DC power supply, but had a few extra small variacs hanging about as well as older 12v 2-amp chargers, so I didn't have to spend any $$$ to make the thing at the time.

In the summer, I actually pull the 8v battery for a 6v one. I leanred a long time ago to keep after these terminals as far as cleaning goes, and they clean easier out of the machine.

You know, if I would rebuild the engine so that it had full compression, and the starter so it spun as fast as it did when new, I could probably skip all this.

But, that's a lot of work and we've been doing it this way since the middle 1980's or so. The 8v battery with 12v super-boost was one of dad's tricks and the DIY 8v charger was one of mine, so there you go!

What I *really* ought to do is sell the 420c to someone that (a) really wants one (b) really wants to restore one to new condition and (c) can actually afford to do so.

I fit categories (a) and (b) but there's no way I fit (c).

I don't really *need* the old girl, as the much newer wheel tractor/loader does 99.9% of my work. I only get the 420c out for the fun of it when I do use it.

Later!

Stan

[Lavoy]

Years ago, actually many years ago, I remember a friend of mine's Dad had a charger that had 6, 8, and 12 volt setting on it. I have never seen another one. I am sure they made plenty of them, just never see them around.
Lavoy

[JD440ICD2006]

Stan,

That is the way it works with these old machines. We get them out to play and sometimes accidentally get some work done. (the work is an added bonus)

[Lavoy]

Yes, I was "working" with the 350 last night trying to catch up on some overdue snow removal and promptly put it through the ice at the end of my driveway and ended up in 2' of water. Everything here is glare ice from the rain we had a month ago, so you can not believe how worthless a pickup is trying to pull a 10,000lb crawler out of a mud hole.
Lavoy

[Stretch]

Go to WAI or WRS and you should be able to find what you need to convert to 12v.

[gus]

Yes, I was "working" with the 350 last night trying to catch up on some overdue snow removal and promptly put it through the ice at the end of my driveway and ended up in 2' of water. Everything here is glare ice from the rain we had a month ago, so you can not believe how worthless a pickup is trying to pull a 10,000lb crawler out of a mud hole.
Lavoy

That would be the exact time every neighbor decides to drive by
Gus

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

So, that's a JD 350 ice thickness gauge, then?

Yep. That's the problem with crawlers: You need a bigger one you keep in the barn just for pulling the *other* crawler out of the muck! I always figured one day I'd have one of those old D8's just for unsticking things around the neighborhood!

Maybe one of those tank retrievers, though. That'd be pretty neat, actually!

And, yes. I believe that a truck is worth zip when it comes to pulling out a tractor, much less a crawler!

As far as my use of my 420c, or rather the lack of it, there was once a time when it was our only machine, and so got used for every chore. Now, I have four tractors of varying sizes and so the crawler/dozer gets little use. Only when I have a job that truly *needs* it, does it get to go out and play.

The sad fact is, I'd rather have a JD350 diesel with a PAT and a winch.....

later!

Stan

[Tigerhaze]

Hi,

And, yes. I believe that a truck is worth zip when it comes to pulling out a tractor, much less a crawler!

Depends on the size of the truck. In the absence of a second working crawler, I have used my Class 6 grain truck to pull on my 2010 loader crawler- it has a 50% success rate

Unfortunatly the crawler is now stuck in a drainge dicth against a hillside with the inside track slipped in between the front idler and crawler frame so is going to be a booger to get unstuck. Sure could use a 10 ton mobile crane right now