2010 questions

[MADJACK]

Hey guys, been browsing the FAQ's and tech forums, but have yet to find answers to these questions.

In no particular order,

If I remove the backhoe, do I need to add something else for weight in the back, ripper, weights etc? before using it, especially digging or lifting with the loader.

I would like some sort of road pads (like tanks use with the rubber preferably) so I could use it around my house without destroying my driveway. One thing I want to do is widen my driveway, I don't want to destroy the paved part. I did see a video on youtube where the guy was driving a crawler up and down his street in a suburban neighborhood using pads made out of trex that he bolted on. I would like something more durable.

When I bought the crawler, the seller told me that it should be rebuilt. My crawler exhibits the same symptoms described in a thread that mentions being 180* out of time, I plan to check this ( I have a service manual) but still plan on possibly having to rebuild the engine. I don't see rebuild kits for this engine, which is understandable given the age, but was wondering if you guys have a source that won't require a bank heist

Thanks for your time guys,
Jack

[Lavoy]

You should already have street shoes on your crawler, most loaders came with them. If not, they are available new.
Yes, if the hoe is off, there should be at least 1000lbs of counterweights back there, check at a salvage yard for a counter weight set and brackets.
Engine parts are pretty readily available, but are not cheap, and you have no other choice for the most part. I can get you kits or individual parts. If you have a gasser and the deck is good, it can be bored out and put in oversize pistons, then you about half price on the parts.
Lavoy

[Tigerhaze]

Hi Jack-

Lavoy is the authority but I thought I would add what I know to supplement his information.

The pads you likely have now on the crawler are what I believe they call in the parts manual as "snow pads"; they have a low rise "triple bar" for traction but are otherwise a smooth steel pad without an aggressive grouser (cleat). While they are not as hard on surfaces as grouser pads, they can still do some damage if not careful. I think that Deere actually manufactured bolt on hardened rubber inserts for certain types of pads, but not sure they were available for that snow pad.

As Lavoy said, you are supposed to have counterweights if the backhoe is detached. I think the book states 5 counterweights (200 lbs each for 1000 pounds); these are suitcase style weights that fit into a bracket. If you have another attachment like a ripper than there are less counterweights needed and with the backhoe none are needed. While the suitacse weights aren't too hard to find, the counterweight bracket that fits into the backhoe bracket isn't so easy to find. I got lucky and a parts crawler I bought had that bracket.

I did run my 2010 loader for quite a while without the backhoe attachment or counterweights. It isn't too hard on it for light bucket loads, but with a heavy bucket load it tends to want to tip the crawler forward on to the front portion of the tracks and off of the rear portion of the tracks, especially when backing out of an excavation.

You didn't say if you had a gas or diesel engine, but sounded like you have a gas engine based on the timing comment. When Lavoy mentioned the option of boring the sleeves and using oversized pistons, I believe that is only for the gas engines using aftermarket parts. I believe the diesel engines do not have aftermarket parts (Deere only), so this likely isn't an option for the diesels.

Hope this helps-

[MADJACK]

Thanks guys,
It has grousers that stick up about 2", not the triple bar pads you mentioned Tigerhaze, or the street shoes that Lavoy mentioned.

It is a deisel, and I was wondering about the timing comment too, I thought it might have been the injector pump or ??? I'm not too fluent on deisels yet, just the basic principle.

[Tigerhaze]

It sounds like someone may have swapped tracks from a dozer onto your loader. The reason that loaders generally do not have grouser pads is that the loaders are much heavier than dozers, especially when loaded, and more traction plus more weight can put a lot of strain on drivetrain components. if you can post a pic, we can confirm what you have.

I was (and am) new to diesels as well but am still learning. To check the timing, you will need a sight glass that installs over the sight window on the pump. If I were you, I would check the easy things first. First of all, make sure you don't have a bunch of water in the sediment bowl ahead of the fuel filters. Then there are the filters themselves, both screens and the cartridge filters. The other thing is to make sure you don't have a lot of air in the system- even though the 2010s "self bleed", I have found that small pockets of trapped air can really affect performance. I had some air trapped at my injectors that was causing the engine to really bog down under load, but after bleeding it seemed like a brand new engine.

If those things don't work then I would tackle bigger, more expensive issues like injectors, injector pumps, etc.

[Lavoy]

Those are full grouser pads like from a dozer crawler. The pads you should have are the ones like Gary described, they are called 3 bar semi-grousers and was Deere's only street pad once the 4 bolt chains came out. There were rubber pads available, but quite scarce nowadays.
If you do not already have it, I would purchase a parts and service manual, they are invaluable.
Lavoy

[MADJACK]

Thanks guys, I'll start checking the small stuff, the seller said something about having the injectors cleaned or some similar thing.

It definately doesn't have the triple bars, pretty aggressive pads on this one, I'll get a pic just for GP.

How destructive are the triple bar pads on the blacktop? Any thoughts on the TREX pad idea or some other sacraficial pad topping?

What would I expect to pay for some triple bar pads, I would consider a tade, but I might like the grousers on them hills.

[Tigerhaze]

I have run the triple bar pads for short distances over concrete (bridge deck) but I take it really slow when doing so and sometimes put boards or tires under the tracks to minimze impacts, depending on whether there is snow or mud on the bridge deck. They're really not meant to be run exclusively on pavement. My pads are worn down some so they don't point load as much as new triple bar pads would either.

I have seen JD 350s with bolt on rubber pads meant for grass surfaces, but they wear quickly on pavement and Lavoy would have to tell you about availability and adaptability.

[roadbuilder]

Tigerhaze and Lavoy are right about the grouser type pads. It would probably be best to trade for what your machine came with from the factory.
If you don't want to trade for loader pads, and are a GOOD welder, you might consider getting some grouser bar and weld another bar towards the curved guide at the other end of the pad. This will give you double bar grousers. Better traction than street pads, but less aggressive. Our mechanics extend the worn grousers on our D-8s sometimes as much as 2" and they are used in rock pits. The first time I saw them being welded on, I pictured pieces of flat bar scattered through the pits, but nine were ever torn off. I don't think that adding a bar to the pad would compromise it's strength as long as the pad has consistent thickness from the existing grouser to the guide curve. I stand to be corrected on this.
I have a theory that if you snipe the top edge (1/2"), corners of the grouser at about 45*,(pre-wearing?), the grouser won't gouge as much when you turn and will not kick up as much ground. (Gradual turns of course). Feller bunchers with 3"-4" grousers have a radical tapered edge and don't create as much ground disturbance when turning. (Berms at the outside of turns)
I use 1x6 stickers that are leftover from culvert deliveries, for crossing concrete bridges and when unloading on blacktop. They don't work well for under track when trying to dig as they push out easily, but would work for a few passes if you just need to cross it. I can get 2 crossing use out of a set of eight when crossing with a D-8, more with street pads or double bar grousers.
If you need to make alot of passes or are digging directly on the blacktop, I'd suggest getting a load of rocky scalpings and spreading over the blacktop about 3" deep where you need it. This will give you a cushion to work on and varying where you cross will allow you to work longer before you need to pull more back. You still will spin a little, but adjust your digging technique and slowing track speed will help eliminate this. Any predigging you can do before you take the backhoe off can get you easier front loading for when you need to pack away.
Another plus to using rock is you can put it over the dirt when done. Our scalpings are really 1 1/2" minus with a lot of rock fines that won't meet federal specs, not conveyor tailings and dust. Get a description of what you are ordering. Scalpings are usually 1/3rd the price of the regular rock price. Prices may vary.
Strips of conveyor belting may work, as will old tires. I used tires under my excavator (double bar grousers) when working on a bridge once and was surprised to see the tires left doughnut shaped polish marks just from a little back and forth movement from swing/counterswing, but no deep damage to the surface. They work well for a normal crossing though. If you are by yourself, the more tires or boards you have, the less you have to climb off and transfer ahead.
Good luck, Dale

[MADJACK]

Thanks for the input Dale,

Well I still haven't taken a pic, but on closer inspection, it looks like someone welded the grouser onto the standard loader pad, the third bar (back one) of each pad has been extended in this way.