GM 2-53 Problem

whiteclipse16 · Post by **whiteclipse16** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:09 am

So as some may have read I'm attempting to put my grandpa's old 440 back together.
He told me that when it was running that something was wrong with the motor. You'd just be going alone and the diesel would just runaway. He said the only way to stop it was to put it in 5th gear, bury the blade, and stall it.
My stepdad talked to a diesel mech. and was told that we may have an injector problem.
I also read an article online that sometimes the throttle linkage isn't adjusted right and the linkage will get stuck in the WOT position. When the motor runs away it will suck some oil through and not shut down.

Anybody have any problems like this? Also, my grandpa said the engine only has about 50 hours on it since a rebuild so it shouldn't be wore too badly.
Thanks

Tigerhaze · Post by **Tigerhaze** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:27 pm

I don't own one of these machines, but I think the issue you heard about has to do with the blower seals on the GM 2-53 diesels. If the blower seal fails, icrankcase oil can enter the combustion chamber and allow the engine to continue to operate even with the fuel flow shut off until it reaches catastrophic failure. Here is one thread about it:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... 440+blower

You should be able to do a search on here about that topic.

Post by **Lavoy** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:39 pm

I seriously question the stuck throttle arguement. Not that it can not happen, but I have never heard of it. On the other hand, blower seals leaking and causing a runaway are well know. In fact, if you look at Detroit's in other applications, and also the larger series of Detroits, they have a flapper in the intake that you can trigger to stop the runaway. The other old time trick I have heard of is to throw your hat in the air filter intake. That may work on a 2-53, not sure it would have much effect on a 12-71.
Lavoy

whiteclipse16 · Post by **whiteclipse16** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:53 pm

Thanks for the input guys.
I've read about the bad seals. If this were the problem why are the runaway sperts random. Wouldn't they happen all at somewhat the same time?
Here is a link to the article I saw about the throttle linkage sticking. Its more based on the 4 cylinder detroits though.
http://www.motorwatch.com/automotivebib ... Diesel.htm

mini kahuna · Post by **mini kahuna** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:13 pm

this thread has great timing,we just had a generator powered by a 12-71 come to the shop.
we serviced the unit about a year ago and she was starting to consume oil then,we warned the customer it was getting oil thru the blower.
it now has a fist sized hole in the crankcase.
if a detroit has had a run away,you need to get that blower resealed or you will have a gernade in your future.

cuznguido · Post by **cuznguido** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:51 pm

The oil issue is real and could be some of your problem but I doubt it. I would bet that you have an injector that is trying to stick. Since the only way to find it with certainty requires you to be able to shut it off while it is running away--hence the air intake flapper. I would heartily recommend that you replace both injectors and do it promptly since they are much cheaper than a blown engine. You can trust me or not on this, and I readily admit that I could be wrong, since an internet diagnosis is suspect at best. But I spent many years working on Detroit engines of all sizes and I have seen this many many times. It is really hard for an engine to suck enough oil through the blower to cause a runaway without blowing bunches of blue smoke and using quite a bit of oil.

mini kahuna · Post by **mini kahuna** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:54 pm

you are right on cuz,detroits run away from crankcase oil being sucked in or fuel not being metered....sticking injector/s have wasted many a detroit.
the price of two injectors replaced is good insurance.

whiteclipse16 · Post by **whiteclipse16** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:54 pm

Wow thanks for all the replies guys.
I'm not going to rule out the blower seals, but I'm leaning for toward the injectors being the problem. Somewhat because the engine had a full overhaul and I can't figure the seals went that fast, however it is possible the shop thought the injectors were"ok" and put them back in.
I can't say if it smoked bad or not because I might not have even been born when the dozer was still running lol.
Hard to tell when we'll tear into the motor, I'm just trying to get some ideas while I have the time to be on here.
I have a bad feeling injectors aren't cheap :/
Thanks for the info guys.

JD440ICD2006 · Post by **JD440ICD2006** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:43 pm

The injectors on a 2-53 are easy to get to once you pull the valve cover and a few things.
4 years ago I think I paid $58 per injector with swapping my old ones, which they typically rebuild and sell again.
Follow the GM 2-53 service manual and make sure you time the injectors as stated.
If it was blower seals sucking oil, you would see evidence of oil usage on the engine oil dip stick.

whiteclipse16 · Post by **whiteclipse16** » Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:41 am

Thats good news, I thought they were going to be super expensive.
Does anyone know the size those injectors are. I read somewhere they are 35's, not sure if thats correct though.
Also anyone have an electronic manual I could possibly download or know where I can find one?
Thanks

cuznguido · Post by **cuznguido** » Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:13 pm

The injectors will have a tag on them telling you the size. one word of caution--do not over tighten the fuel lines when connecting the new ones. Cracked fuel lines are one of the most common problems leading to fuel in the oil.

JD440ICD2006 · Post by **JD440ICD2006** » Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:34 pm

A factory GM 2-53 for the JD 440 ICD has S 35 injectors. There is a rebuild kit that has new pistons, injectors, etc. It is called an "N" kit. The injectors are N 35. This kit increases compression from 17-1 to 21-1.
If you are not adding that kit, go with S 35. It is highly advised not to increase injector size.

whiteclipse16 · Post by **whiteclipse16** » Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:46 pm

Thanks for all the great info guys.
Hopefully I'll be getting the motor out of my grandpa's barn and to the house and have a look at it.
I'll check things out and keep you posted.
Thanks again.

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