420 distributor cap

panhead · Post by **panhead** » Mon May 10, 2010 5:38 pm

Seems to me, I read something on here awhile back about distributor caps.
I had an engine rebuilt by a guy(huge mistake), I've almost got her rebuilt again.
The cap that is on this crawler, has the 2 plug holes facing forward.
When I look in the book, it looks like the holes parallel the block.
Is there a couple different caps, for the 420 series.
Does the wheel tractor use a different cap?
Thanks
Jim

CELSESSER · Post by **CELSESSER** » Mon May 10, 2010 7:09 pm

Panhead,
There are two types of two cylinder distributer caps. One for the horozontal two cylinder tractors and one for the verticle two cylinders in the 420,430 and 440.
They are not interchangable.
If you have the correct one and the orientation of the terminals is off then either it is not timed right or the distributor was not inserted in the correct orientation to the oil pump or theoil pump was not timed correctly.

Chuck

panhead · Post by **panhead** » Mon May 10, 2010 8:17 pm

Chuck;
I had the head off(don't ask),with the front cylinder piston at top dead center, the DC is in the timing hole. The notch in the distributor shaft is facing the front cylinder. This all looks correct to me.
I still think its the cap.
Any other ideas?
What makes the caps not interchangeable, just the location of the plug wire holes. I'm thinking the size of the distributor housing's are the same.
Jim

Post by **Lavoy** » Mon May 10, 2010 9:37 pm

The only difference in the caps is the location of the plug wire connections, seems to me they are one position different. The lion's share of parts places will say that the cap for the vertical distributor Waterloo built tractors fits the Dubuques, this is not the case. It will fit, but does not work.
Lavoy

JD440ICD2006 · Post by **JD440ICD2006** » Tue May 11, 2010 1:00 pm

The plug holes are 90 degrees apart.
Look at the cap that you have. If the two spark plug wire holes are in between the clips, it is not correct. The holes go closest to the engine. It may fit with them to the outside but this is not correct.

WRONG cap for Dubuque Crawlers

If one of the clips is in between the holes, it is correct.

CELSESSER · Post by **CELSESSER** » Tue May 11, 2010 3:50 pm

Panhead,
With the front cylinder TDC on the compression stroke(both valves closed) and timed to the mark as you described the slot for the distributor should be running parallel to the crankshaft with the narrower side of the grove wall should be toward the outside of the crawler.
The pictures in my manual(crawler is 5 miles away) shows the cap having the plug wires on the engine side of the cap and both manuals show the Dubuque cap to have the clip in between the plug wire terminals.
I believe the cap JD440 showed is a Waterloo cap.

Please correct me if I am wrong anyone.

Chuck

JD440ICD2006 · Post by **JD440ICD2006** » Tue May 11, 2010 4:15 pm

I love it when Internet parts sites have the wrong cap picture. Sorry about that.
Here is a correct cap. The spark plug holes are on one side with a clip in between.

Post by **Lavoy** » Tue May 11, 2010 6:14 pm

The internet site does not have the pic of the wrong cap, that is the pic of the cap they are going to send you, it is the cap itself that is wrong.

This problem has gone on for years, much like the 420, 420, 440 one size fits all manifolds. Most of the parts places know little or nothing about the machines these parts are for. I am finding out that some of them do not care either. I have told two different vendors that their applications on a particular part are incorrect, but I guess they know better than me, they never did change their books.
Lavoy

mapaduke@yahoo.com · Post by **mapaduke@yahoo.com** » Tue May 11, 2010 7:00 pm

I WAS WONDERING THE SAME THING. MY 40 THE PLUG WIRES ARE ALMOST IN LINE NEXT TO THE BLOCK AND MY 430 ARE LIKE THE PICTURE ABOVE?? I TRIED TO PULL THE DISTRIBUTOR TO SEE IF IT WAS INSTALLED 180 DEGREES OFF .IT DIDNT WORK .I RE-INSTALED IT THE WAY IT WAS.IT RUNS GOOD JUST DOES"NT LOOK RIGHT TO ME

Stan Disbrow · Post by **Stan Disbrow** » Wed May 12, 2010 7:52 am

Hi,

Yeah, and it's not just old tractors, either. The same problem occurs with parts suppliers for everything else. They go solely by what's in their computers and won't accept any corrections back to reality.

I have an older (1990, so not 'old' as we on *this* board think of it!) Ford station wagon. I just went thru this regarding the rear brakes. The wagons use 11" and the sedans use 10". Three different parts stores all show the same part number for the wagon as the sedan.

Guess what? Wrong! You can't fit 10" brake shoes into where the 11" ones are supposed to be regardless of what the stupid computer says.

The first store manager did not want to take the 10" shoes back as 'the part is correct'. I had to make a 'scene' by bringing in the worn 11" shoes and prove to them that what they gave me are quite wrong.

That 'scene', BTW was me leaving the store without a word, going to the truck to grab an old shoe (I figured I might need it) and coming back in to plop it in front of the store manager alongside the new, wrong, shoe as she was ringing up another person. She told me I need not 'make a scene' as she'd refund my money and take the wrong shoes back - right after she'd refused to do so two minutes before.

Needless to say, I've reported her to the store corporate HQ, not that I think they either will care or do a danged thing, including changing the listing in their computer system.

The other two stores show the same part numbers for both the sedan and the wagon, so no point in spending my money there. I wound up ordering the shoes on-line as those folks not only have different part numbers for the sedan and wagon, they even point out that the wagon shoes are larger in *both* webpages (for the sedan and wagon). They must have run across this and actually changed their computer listings accordingly!

And, the local stores all wonder why so much of their past business has been lost to the on-line stores?

I suppose all such outfits would use the excuse that these things we want parts for are too old for them to have much concern about.....

later!

Stan

Stan Disbrow · Post by **Stan Disbrow** » Wed May 12, 2010 7:56 am

mapaduke@yahoo.com wrote:I WAS WONDERING THE SAME THING. MY 40 THE PLUG WIRES ARE ALMOST IN LINE NEXT TO THE BLOCK AND MY 430 ARE LIKE THE PICTURE ABOVE?? I TRIED TO PULL THE DISTRIBUTOR TO SEE IF IT WAS INSTALLED 180 DEGREES OFF .IT DIDNT WORK .I RE-INSTALED IT THE WAY IT WAS.IT RUNS GOOD JUST DOES"NT LOOK RIGHT TO ME

Hi,

The oil pump is not in quite right. There's a timing to the gear on the pump that puts the distributor in such that the wire sockets on the cap are lined up parallel with the block.

I don't know of any other issues with the pump being in slightly askew like that, but if it gets too far off, then that #1 wire will have quite a stretch to it!

later!

Stan

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