Removing cross-bars from track frames?

[sds]

Greetings from Massachusetts,

I'm in the final stages of a complete disassembly of my 440IC and have run into a roadblock that I'm not sure if I should just let go of and move on (that is start sandblasting and reassembling things..). I though this forum might have some advice on just how important/unimportant this step is...

I'm trying to separate my rear cross bar from the track frame and while I was able to push off the left track frame relatively easily, I've been unable to have similar success with the right track frame. I've been using a 20 ton bottle jack, chains, an oxy-acetylene torch to heat the sleaves on the track frame but to date have only been able to bend various steel I-beams.

If it is of use, a photo of my setup can be seen at http://web.mit.edu/sewell/Public/rear-crossbar.jpg

Should it really be this difficult to press out this rear cross bar and if so, should I just leave it together, and get on with the restoration? Was it perhaps press fit at the factory years ago? Interestingly, the portion of the cross bar that spent the last 47 years in the left track frame is kind of 'pitted' and rough vs. the rest of the cross bar which is a relatively smooth 3" steel cylinder...Is this just from it's position in the sleave or was it designed like this to increase the 'friction' of the hold?


Thanks for any advice!

Scott

[Lavoy]

Usually what happens is they rust in, and/or the dirt sticks them in. On the side of the casting that the track spring goes, there is a large hole. Make sure that you dig all of the dirt out of there. Then take a wire and dig as much out from aroung the shaft as you can. Take an air gun and blow around the shaft while tapping on the casting with a hammer to loosen up more dirt.
Beyond that, if it will not come, then I would leave it.
Lavoy

[Brad Clark]

Scott for what its worth you might try pushing from the end of the cross bar. I think putting the jack on the one side pushing on the flat bar might be putting the cross bar in a bind . I would build a frame for the jack and push straight on to it from outside of the track frame if you can just an idea brad

[sds]

Thanks to all you guys for your help and advice!

I think I'm going give up on this 'need' of mine to press out the rear cross bar from the right track frame and take Lavoy's advice to move on. I've posted two photos of my 'press' at
http://web.mit.edu/sewell/Public/jd440ic

My press plates are 1" thick T304 stainless steel and the bottle jack is 20 tons. The (4) threaded rods are 3/4-10. I've heated the track frame sleeve with an oxygen-acetylene torch and added a good bit of Kroil over each of three nights now after work but to no avail...The 20 ton bottle jack just can't make it budge! I'm going to visit the rental shops to see if anyone has a 50-ton I can try but frankly, I'm about ready to throw in the towel and begin the (hopefully) more satisfying project of sandblasting and reassembling the crawler!!! It was more of my 'white whale' in any event, I don't think it's going to affect things too much...

Thanks again!!
Scott

[Lavoy]

Scott,
I am actually quite suprised that what you are doing has not gotten it out. I would not have believed they would lock in that tight. I have never had a setup like that to get them apart, so have had to do more fighting, but usually they will come.
Did you get ALL of the dirt out of the housing? The entire center is relieved all the way around the crossbar, so there is a lot of area for the dirt to pack in.
If you can take it to a car wash or have a power washer, blow in through the spring hole and see how much dirt you can wash out of there.
The second thing to try is abandon the Kroil and use plain water. Rust will not dissolve in any petroleum solvent, but will in water. Fill the cavity with water and let it set for a few days. Make sure to keep it full, and then try it later.
Lavoy

[jdman]

I Went Through This Also........ I Ended Up, Drilling And Tapping About 6 Holes In The Tube, And Added Grease Fittings.... I Kept Pumping Grease In Them Every Day.... After A Week I Was Pumping The Dirt And Rust Out... It Worked Great.... I Then Brazed The Holes Up And Painted It.........

Jeff

[Howard Yoder]

That was a heck of a good idea.

[Lavoy]

You can also fill a grease gun with liquid penetrating gunk of some sort too.
Lavoy

[Little John]

Thanks for the very helpful information found in these messages.
Finally (after probably 20 hrs active and 6 weeks passive soaking, not in that order!) have been able to free rear crossbar on 440, by washing and gouging out dirt with wires, hacksaw blades and compressor fed washing wand. The hole behind the spring is 2" and plugs up nicely with a 2" expanable rubber plug from the friendly plumbing section at Lowe's. That allowed continous soaking. I used some Oxy-Clean laundry soap to help keep it wet and it has a little peroxide in it which seemed to help too. I drilled the plug and added a small plastic tube with a small funnel to keep the fluid level up.
Next is the front crossbar. Need some information. Does anyone know the length of the crossbar beyond the square mounting plate welded to the crossbar that has 4 holes in it ? Also the depth of the hole in the casting that it bolts to would be most helpful. None of the books on the 440 give any such dimensions. I need to drill in beyond it just a bit to get some water or grease in there to start loosening it. Thanks again.

[Lavoy]

Seems to me that the hole is about 1 1/2" deep. I think there is room on the outside to drill and tap a hole that would basically be facing the end of the shaft. I have even thought of using hyd pressure if necessary, but in realilty, a grease guy will develop quite a bit more pressure than a hyd system.
Lavoy