420 Points

[joeturner1977]

I do not run my crawler much, so that is most of my trouble. Every time I go to start my crawler I have to shine up the points to get it to start. Last time the machine ran was on Memorial Day weekend. I store it outside under a canvas tarp, and it would not start today. It was nice perfect summer afternoon. Temp. 78, Dew point in the 50's. There is no moisture inside the cap or under the breaker plate.

An old timer that I talked to says that the points today are not made like the old days. He claims the points used to be harder. I am thinking about switching it to solid state ingnition, but the mixed reviews corncern me.

Any input on this would be helpful,

Thank you

[JD440ICD2006]

I store my 440IC under an open shed. It is a tin roof on telephone poles. I have not touched the points in more than 6 months. I do not run it much. It ranges from once a week start up to sitting for weeks at a time.
I think it has to do with several factors. I have never liked tarps because they keep the rain off but they also can hold moisture that you cannot see.

[Willyr]

Our points are designed to run on 6 volt. The problem as I understand it is when we run 12 volts (even tho we are using a ballast resistor). The points are still burning hotter. The first problem is that they have been filed. Todays points are made with a chrome face. If you file it you have destroyed the chrome face. Yes they are softer, but will last a long time on 6 volts with the chrome face. If memory serves me correctly they used to have cadmium for the whole point surface and 50% of the contact. Yes you could dress these up with a points file.

Did I confuse you?

I myself am going to solid state.


http://www.tractorpartsasap.com/Electro ... 105069.htm

[joeturner1977]

More info : I am still running a six volt + ground system. I will switch to 12 volt if/when my gen. goes to hell.

[JD440ICD2006]

I fully respect anyone's choices on these. They belong to us! We can hang them from an oak tree and throw pine cones at them if that is what makes us happy.

For the cost of the electronic ignition alone, I can purchase around 12 sets of points and condensors at today's price.
I have owned my 440IC for 4 years and have put one set of points in it. If they blow out today, I have enough "funds" to put new in points every 4 years for the next 44 years. I am 57 years old, do the math.
The EI systems have a minimum voltage at which they will fire. Be sure your starter is not going to draw down below that voltage or it will not start.

[Willyr]

It is already planned out. There is a wire that will come off the solenoid that will feed a second solenoid. That second solenoid will run a lithium battery to the coil during cranking. I have used these batteries before on remote control helicopters. The amount of current to fire the coil is minimal to what the draw is on the esky helicopter.

As to the math? The way I see it. points are available now, yet what about in 5 years? We are not out of this recession yet. Companies are still closing up left and right. If solid state is install and forget, then I am all for it, one less thing to worry about when things go bad. The joys of messing around with points in a rain storm because you lost spark and your trying to get this toy back on the trailer, make the points work old very quickly.

But hey its preferrence,

[JD440ICD2006]

My guess is that points have been around longer than any new fangled electronic substitute.
I have found that when points do not work, it indicates that there are problems that need to be fixed. Loose and poor grounds, loose screws, bad wiring, faulty caps, bad plug wires, etc.
I have a 1950 JD M that has the same points in it from 5 years ago. Like anything else, set them up correctly the first time, they give good service.
I have heard folks say that the EI modules have a timer in them that shorts out just after the warranty expires. I am sure it is just people talking.

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

You also have to specify positive ground for the points, or else you get ones for negative ground by default.

The contact materials are different, as already pointed out (no pun intended, but we get one anyway), but the contacts have to be mounted oppositely on the points assembly for pos gnd vs. neg gnd.

If you put neg gnd points into a pos gnd system (or the other way 'round), the rate of metal migration between the contacts increases. That leads to a much higher rate of pitting.

This has been a 'gotcha' since the time when things were first being switched from pos gnd to neg gnd.

What I don't know is if the points for the old iron as sourced from Deere are still being made properly for pos gnd or not. I haven't bought any as I had several sets left over from when we closed the dealership way back in the early 1980's. However, back then there were different part numbers for the old iron for those with original pos gnd and those that had been changed over to neg ground.

later!

Stan

[Willyr]

If you put neg gnd points into a pos gnd system (or the other way 'round), the rate of metal migration between the contacts increases. That leads to a much higher rate of pitting.

This has been a 'gotcha' since the time when things were first being switched from pos gnd to neg gnd.

Stan

I believe if you follow the link above you will see the ignition descriptor does say pos ground.

# John Deere M, MT, 40, 50, 60, 70, 320, 330, 420, 430, 435, 440 all with counter-clockwise rotation
# Delco Remy distributor numbers 1111418, 1111709, 1112571
# Voltage: 6 Volt positive ground
# Test results show that the Ignitor delivers twice the voltage to the spark plugs, increasing horsepower, fuel economy, and spark life
# No points to burn, pit, and corrode
# No moving or rubbing parts to wear out
# Electronics are molded in epoxy, eliminating deterioration from dirt, oil, grease, or moisture
# Fits entirely inside the distributor
# Stable timing, no need for adjustments
# No complicated wiring makes installation easy
# All new, rebuilt and used tractor parts have a 1-year warranty

[joeturner1977]

Where can I get the correct points ???
I believe these points came from NAPA. They said they are the same as older Chevys use. After reading that pos.GND. points are differant, I don't think these are the points are the right...Did Chevy ever use a pos.GND. setup???

These are the NAPA part numbers I am running right now
Contact point set = CS763A
Condenser = RR174

[Lavoy]

You are correct in that they are the same points as the old Chevy's and a host of other makes, you are fine.
Lavoy

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Once upon a time, everything was 6v Positive Ground. Fords, Chevy's, Deeres. What we have to sit and think about is what we mean when each of us thinks of 'old'.

Then, 12v came along. Some of those were pos gnd, too. Then, someone figured out there was less of a connection corrosion issue if they switched the ground to negative. I have had to go thru 12v pos gnd stuff where every danged common (as in ground) connection to every single electrical item was corroded. What a pain! I can see why it was changed, for sure!

So, for a while there, all thru the 1950's, some things were 6v pos gnd, and other things were 12v neg gnd. Eventually, everything became 12v neg gnd. I think Volkswagen was the last to convert from 6v in the late 1960's.

So, yes. Old Chevy's were 6v pos gnd. I learned to drive on a 46 GMC pick up that was. Not much difference between a 46 GMC pick-up and a 46 Chevy pick-up. Except the parts that said 'GMC' and not 'Chevrolet' on them, of course.

The points used in the old GMC were, indeed, the same as used in the 420 and the M we had (well, still have, but the GMC is long gone).

So, anyway 6v pos gnd was the standard at the time Deere was switching from mags to battery spark. Sounds like a good idea to me to pick a set of points that every auto parts store would have in stock.

later!

Stan

[Willyr]

Hey Lavoy;

Thankyou for the wiring harness.

I was talking to a buddy of mine here in Ellsworth. He was telling me (he runs a alternator / generator / starter repair shop) that the way our electrical wiring is hooked up through the regulator, that the regulator will give line drop on the power to solid state. That the regulator filters some of the power getting through.

[JD440ICD2006]

The regulator is made up of several eletromagnetic switches which will draw various amounts of power depending on the battery's charge level.

[Willyr]

according to the wiring diagram the power for ignition and dash comes off of the "L" of the regulator.