420 blade...

[Draco]

First off...Hello men, enjoy reading and learning from this fine forum/group of folks. I'm pretty sure I'm the youngest member on here, so you'll be seeing a lot of dumb questions coming from me. Everyone has to learn from somewhere, hope I don't get on ya'lls nerves to bad though....

Got a (new to me) old 420 crawler, needing some advise....I put a new bit on my blade and am having problems getting the blade to run level. Everytime I let the blade down and the left side touches the ground, it sucks down and "gouges" out a hole, enough so, that it will stall the tractor if I don't stop. My question is...Can I re-enforce the blade enough from the right side to hold the left side from "sucking down" the whole front end of the tractor? Seems like a hydro cylinder on both sides would have worked a hell of a lot better for preventing the problem...IMO.

I'm far from an operator...but I was doing a pretty good job until I put that new bit on.

[Willyr]

Check your pins and bushings (only if you have bushings). Technically when the blade is raised one should not be able to wiggle the blade in any direction (by grabbing it with your hands and pushing or pulling on it).

[Lu47Dan]

Draco, First.........
Welcome to the dirt pile
A few pictures would help, for general discussion about your problem I will start by agreeing with Willyr. Check all your joints for wear. Once you have tightened the blades joints up then it is time to re-enforce the blades structure.
I have what we call around here a Greenville Steel Car blade on my 420 and it has some wear issues that I need to take care of.
Here is the original thread on it.
http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... c&start=30
You can see in the picture of the brace or toggle link the that the pin is worn badly, not only the pin is worn but the holes in the push frame and the blade itself are worn also making for a loose blade.
All the loose fitting joints add up into slop that can allow the blade to move when the weight of the blade is taken off the hydraulic cylinder.
Check all the pins and pivot points for wear, check any bolt holes for wear also. While you are checking these, watch for broken and cracked welds on the push frame.
Once you have the pivot points repaired move on to repairing the push frame. If you repair any damage on the push frame before repairing the pivot points you can inadvertently pull the pivot points out of alignment.
A lot of 420C's were produced with the single lift cylinders over the years, and they were functional, I got lucky on mine as it has the dual lift cylinders.
Read this link on posting photos.
http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... php?t=4262
Dan.

[JD440ICD2006]

Draco,

Welcome to the board! Always happy to see new members, especially young ones that get in to this stuff. I only wish that I had gotten in to it much earlier, I would know more now.

There are no "dumb" questions, ask away. None of us know all of it but together we have a great time figuring it out and learning.

Chuck W.

[Draco]

Thanks for the replys men....What Willyr said made a lot of sence. I had a good bit of "slop" when the blade was raised....I did a little work on the old girl an found that a LOT of stuff had been "fixed" with whatever was laying around (I guess).

Dan, thats some serious beef you got on that blade.

I took the blade off and went to town. I happened to find new bushings and all the correct size bolts (the same size too! woohoo!!) for mounting the blade. Also,While at Tractor Supply, I picked up a new hydro cylinder. The other one was about shot, leaked and was very weak IMO.

Here is the kind of work that they did to fix the problems....

#2


Here is what I did...may not be much better, but I like the looks of it a lot better...


Couple full shots of "Project knuckle buster"...




I got a LOT of work to do...enjoyed every second so far!

[Draco]

Draco,

Welcome to the board! Always happy to see new members, especially young ones that get in to this stuff. I only wish that I had gotten in to it much earlier, I would know more now.

There are no "dumb" questions, ask away. None of us know all of it but together we have a great time figuring it out and learning.

Chuck W.

Thank you Chuck!

[JD440ICD2006]

Those are some nice looking grousers on there. How are the chains, pins, and bushings?
I would suggest setting the track tension by the book, they will last longer and you will not risk spinning out of a track while turning.

Chuck W.

[Draco]

Got me a couple 1 1/2" wrenches at TSC too....Next on the to do list. Almost out of adjustment, gonna have to get some work done on them. The Grousers are in pretty good shape though.

I may have to take a road trip up to Mr. LaVoy...My wife wanted to go on vacation anyway....

[Willyr]

Lu47Dan, Looks as though we both have the same blade. Tho mine is more beat up and beat to hell.

I am planning to redo my push gear to like dracos so that I may have at least a 4 way hydraulic blade out of it. I figure an A fram to the front and a pivot in the center of the blade.

[Lu47Dan]

Willyr, I am going to use the push frame as a pattern for the new 6 way blade I plan on building. These frames are pretty well designed, the metal used to make them was not the best choice at the time. It tends to crack along the welds, then the previous owners would weld the crack shut with 6010 or 6013, and the cracks would get worse. I have some rod for HSLA steel that seems to stop the cracking, if you drill a stop hole in the end of the crack or grind out the crack completely. I also preheat the area to remove all the trapped moisture from between the parts.
I have a set of plans drawn up for the new push frame and blade mount. It will not be a simple build but should make for improved performance of the crawler.
I intend on building a new blade to mount new push frame with the same mounting system that the present blade has. I like the pins, with a pin on blade I can add an existing snow plow blade to the front of the frame without having to break any hydraulic connections. Since the new frame will have power angle and tilt, I can set the snow blade to side cast or carry snow. I have looked at several designs on the web, the best looking design was one over in my thread on the old Machine Builders Network message board. The board is in transition to new software and a new server, it is tough to access the old board.
Here is the link to the thread where the pictures are posted.
http://www.machinebuilders.net/forum/fo ... PN=0&TPN=3
They are in the sixth post down on this page.
Dan

[Willyr]

Thankyou for the idea. That seems easier than the headache I was planning.

Fortunately the push arms I have are closer to what you have ib the other forum.

When I can get my tractor to start again I will take the blade off to show all the wonderful spaghetti welding that I have. Too bad I dont have a cutting torch to remove it all. Sigh, lifes challenges.

[Draco]

When I can get my tractor to start again I will take the blade off to show all the wonderful spaghetti welding that I have. Too bad I dont have a cutting torch to remove it all. Sigh, lifes challenges.

Sounds like mine. I used a grinder on all of it....a set of torches is in my near future after that 2 days of hell.

[Lu47Dan]

Thankyou for the idea. That seems easier than the headache I was planning.
You are welcome, I decided to use structural tubing for the arms and channel iron for the main frame

Fortunately the push arms I have are closer to what you have ib the other forum.

When I can get my tractor to start again I will take the blade off to show all the wonderful spaghetti welding that I have. Too bad I dont have a cutting torch to remove it all. Sigh, lifes challenges.

When I can get my tractor to start again I will take the blade off to show all the wonderful spaghetti welding that I have. Too bad I dont have a cutting torch to remove it all. Sigh, lifes challenges.

Sounds like mine. I used a grinder on all of it....a set of torches is in my near future after that 2 days of hell.

I have a Miller Spectrum 2050 plasma cutter, I have a gouging tip for it so I can cut the junk welds off the original frame. I also have set of O/A torches, I do not use them as much as I use to now that I have the plasma. I think that copying the original design will best possible way to go.
I plan on keeping the original blade and push frame for taking the crawler to our local antique tractor show.
Dan.

[Draco]

I have a Miller Spectrum 2050 plasma cutter, I have a gouging tip for it so I can cut the junk welds off the original frame. I also have set of O/A torches, I do not use them as much as I use to now that I have the plasma. I think that copying the original design will best possible way to go.
I plan on keeping the original blade and push frame for taking the crawler to our local antique tractor show.
Dan.

Would love a plasma cutter.....need to get off my pocket book and just buy one already....need to. I got to many "projects" and not enough $.

[Willyr]

I finally got out to the garage to get some photos. Man its tough to walk 500 feet after a week of cellularitis.

Any ways here is the back of my blade. There will be more, but some how it looks like I wont be going to the fair this next weekend.