Grouser pads on a loader?

Swawpy · Post by **Swawpy** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:26 pm

The street pads on my new 2010 loader are cupped and worn down so bad the bolt heads are nearly worn flush and I will be losing them very soon. I bought a parts 2010 dozer with very good grousers and was wondering how hard it would be on the machine if I had grousers on a loader/backhoe? I know it would add alot of stress...is it asking for trouble? What if I cut each grouser bar down a bit with a torch? Say 3/4" or so? Necessary? Last, I thought about welding lengths of square stock towards rear of each grouser pad to help distribute the weight and lessen the "bite".

To my surprise the pins measure out at an honest 23 1/4" or 50% wear and I was delighted with that...this will likely be the last set of shoes this girl will ever need...or get in my lifetime!

Thanks

Willyr · Post by **Willyr** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:28 am

I have seen very tall grousers on 420's. I am sure the idea is to get better torque in softer soil. The only problem that I am aware of with taller grousers it will take more horse power to use and perhaps for a more bumpy ride.

As to the holes? Some one else may need to weigh in on this. But I think it is hardened to resist wear. Short of having an EDM (electron displacement machining) or the use of a crude cutting torch, are the only way you will get the holes through.

I found a older picture I had of a prior 420. This shows the tall grousers some one had done ( I cut them off, as I said, bumpy ride).

Tigerhaze · Post by **Tigerhaze** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:45 am

I think you would find that dozer grousers on a 2010 crawler loader/backhoe combo would be fairly hard on your sprockets and finals. Part of the reason the loaders come with the triple bar pads is to allow some slippage when carrying a load. I know when I have my backhoe on my 2010 loader it puts a lot of stress on the sprockets, and I have relatively worn pads like you have.

Your ideas seem sound, but I would see what others with more experience in this area have to say. These threads may be helpful for you about this:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... users+weld

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... users+weld

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... users+weld

Swawpy · Post by **Swawpy** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:19 pm

Thanks guys- I am thinking prob weld stock in some kind of split pattern on the grousers to help out. Will be using mainly in the woods/forest with good soil and no rocks. Will be skidding logs, cutting roads, and slowly clearing an acre. I will only mount the hoe when needed.

When mounted with a 4 in 1 was there ever a pad that compromised between street and grouser? Just thinking if using the drott maybe there was a more agressive pad for when opened up and "dozing".

Willr- How did you like that cutting edge?

Post by **Lavoy** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:30 pm

Grouser pads on a loader will DRASTICALLY accelerate steering clutch and undercarriage wear, not to mention greatly increased drivetrain stress. Not that it can not be done, obviously it can, but there is a price to pay. Given the scarcity and/or price of 2010 parts, is it really worth the risk?
Lavoy

Swawpy · Post by **Swawpy** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:43 pm

Thanks Lavoy- Do you think an acceptable set of pads could be made out of the grouser pads by welding 2 more bars across??? I guess it would probably give even more traction and be worse off in my case than regular grouser pads. What about cutting them down? My problem is I really need to do something while its home at the shop before I relocate the machine...and I already have the dozer pads in great shape? I have not even test it yet in the woods to see how she works, but I can't imagine it pushing any trees or dragging logs anywhere the way it is. Besides- there is literally no bolt had left so the street pads should come off here at the shop where its conveniant.

Thanks[/url]

Post by **Lavoy** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:47 am

Grouser pads are much weaker than the 3 bar semi-grousers, cutting the grouser down in height will weaken them more. Undoubtedly they will work, you may get some bending of the pad though given the conditions you are going to be working in.
Another alternative if your grouser pads are that good of shape is sell them, and buy new 3 bar semi-grousers. Add in the hours you will spend cutting and welding, wire, gas, and whatever material you will be welding on the grouser pads, and you might be ahead in the long run.
Lavoy

MADJACK · Post by **MADJACK** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:16 pm

Great info! Mine came with grousers welded on the triple bar pads. I was going to run them, now I think I wont. I'm sure it's been covered, but how much do new pads run?

Swawpy · Post by **Swawpy** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:34 pm

I called the cat track shop here and they offered a aftermarket 14" triple grouser AKA street pads for $14.65 ea. Seems a great price but thats still $1150 plus bolts...it just kills me not to use the grousers I have but $$$ vs. labor? I probably have not burned more than ten rods in a row for years. Decisions, decisions.

Ray III · Post by **Ray III** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:34 pm

If you're thinking of welding on pads, why not just build the originals back up? Does the cupping really hurt anything?

Swawpy · Post by **Swawpy** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:22 pm

Ray III wrote:If you're thinking of welding on pads, why not just build the originals back up? Does the cupping really hurt anything?

When setting on say the shop floor the edges of pads are about 1" off the floor...so way less contact. Also would not be able to weld anything straight or flat across the pad...except for maybe 3" long in the middle.

I don't want to tear the machine up with grousers but I bought it to use it so I think I will put the grousers on after welding some 5/8" stock across the back and likely a length in the center. If used cautiously and in soft ground I can't see it doing any more damage than if on a dozer...same undercarriage. Just a bit more weight from loader frame, the real weight and design was based on a full bucket of material right? I looked up the weights of a few material and was sure surprised. I think mine has a 1 yard bucket and believe it ir not--
1 yard sand= 2600 lbs
1 yard 3/4 gravel= 2835 lbs
1 yard dry dirt= 2000 lbs
1 yard wet or muddy dirt= 3000 lbs
So I can sure appreciate the stresses added with a full or HEAPING bucket, grousers, and firm traction. No dought a short lived combination.
I will not be using it as a loader machine was designed for; constantly turning, pivoting, backing, with a full bucket loading trucks or conveyors. I will be mostly pushing small trees, backdragging, clearing brush, and skidding the bigger logs. Also the land is far from being flat and level so I really need good traction through draws and slopes. Wet Oregon conditions should be forgiving with all the rain and good soil.

JWB Contracting · Post by **JWB Contracting** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:04 am

I saved a set of rails and pads off a 550G sideboom that our mechanic was going to thru in the scrap dumpster.

We cut the pads down to fit onto one of our 450C loaders. The pads were about half worn but still bit fairly good.

I would definantly do this again, but you do notice that you get incredible traction. This is just a yard machine so we are not working it that hard.

I would not do it on a loader backhoe unit thou.

One other set i have seen is with a very agressive growser pad used on one of our Vermeer FlexTrak 115 crawler vibratory plows. The outside edges our cut down at a 45 degree angle. This was a factory set up and might help when turning on hard ground. The unit has a very long track frames and with the wide agressive pads it plows pipe very well. You can however notice that it does not turn as well than our other units with the shorter track frames and less agressive growsers.

I didn't think 2010's were getting that scarce. I know where there are two 2010 sideboom dozer machines. I haven't recoverned from the last one i did (took 3+ years).

Stan Disbrow · Post by **Stan Disbrow** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:17 am

Hi,

One thing to keep in mind when thinking grousers on dozers vs. loaders is what happens when you actually use the machine.

A dozer blade tends to lift the machine as it works. So, the grouser cleats act to maintain traction as the weight is lifted off the pads (by the blade pushing down into the ground).

A loader bucket tends to push the machine down into the ground, so the force is increased, not lessened, on the pads. So a loader doesn't need the grousers, and if it has them they greatly increase the strain on everything in the driveline.

Even when simply moving material in the bucket, the load on the pads is increased. In fact, when you have grousers on the loader and simply use it for transporting material, every little rock you ride over will impart high forces into the rollers, which leads to their early demise.....

The reason that the pads on this machine are cupped is from these forces shoving the machine into the ground as it works. You don't tend so see this on dozers, they tend to just wear off their grouser cleats...

Later!

Stan

Post by **Lavoy** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:35 am

The best analogy I have been able to come up with as far as grousers is this. Take a pointed shovel, stomp it in the ground until it is flush with the ground. Now grab the handle and try and rotate the shovel like a post hole auger. That is exactly what you are asking a crawler with grousers to do every time you turn. It happens whether it is a dozer of loader crawler, but with a loader you are dealing with up to double the weight.
For your conditions, if you are only in soft or wet ground, never a hard surface or hard dirt, you will be fine.
In my soil here, I have been able to kill the engine in 3rd or 4th gear on a 5 roller 420 dozer just trying to drive it across the yard becasue the grousers were tall, and the ground hard.
Lavoy

Ray III · Post by **Ray III** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:46 pm

How tall should dozer grousers be for a 420? I want to build them back up for as much traction as I can get but don't want to rip out all the grass I try to drive over.

I want to repair the bolt holes in the pads, was thinking of welding around carbon rod and grinding flat. Using a MIG welder with .45" flux core and gas as well to improve weld quality. Sound good?

Gotta find someone around here that sells grouser bar stock.

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