Calling all weldors

[JD440ICD2006]

What is the best way to weld this back?

I have a Lincoln 220 volt "buzz box" that is a/c and d/c. Do I need a special material rod since I will joining the chrome rod to other metal?
Do I need to grind any off and if so, how much?
Looks it broke at a joint that was welded.
This is the ram that angles my blade, JD 64.

[steamfitter99]

Hey it looks like it broke at the old weld, did it? Tom

[JD440ICD2006]

Yes, it is a clean break at what appears to be the end of the rod.

[LarryD]

Yes, you will definately need to grind it back some to vee it out so you can get weld penetration deeper into the joint. It needs to be ground as deep as possible and still maintain original alignment for maximum strength. From the pic I would say put all the vee on the yoke side of the joint. As for welding rod choice......best choice is closest match to original metal, which is anybody's guess. A good choice to try with your welder would be any low hydrogen rod such as 7016, 7018, 8018, 10016, or 11018. Now comes a little brutal honesty.....if you are not a very proficient welder as far as ability, knowledge and technique goes this part will likely fail again. You may be doing yourself a favor to take the pieces to a local welding shop with a reputation for doing good work. Not trying to scare you off, just want you to look at it from all angles, as it is easier and cheaper for a shop to do it right for you the first time than to have to undo a mess before they can make a proper repair. Hope this helps and gives you a little insight.

[LarryD]

Also, a good technique to repair stuff like this if you have the equipment is to drill and tap both ends of the repair and put a threaded stud between the two pieces at the center, then weld over that.

[Willyr]

30 degree bevel on both sides (60 combined) to 50% of depth is what we were told in college.

yup, you have a ton of grinding and welding to do. Hope you have a wirefeed available to put it back together. Because you will want one after you chip/regrind/weld after each stick.

[whiteclipse16]

Hope that's not on the one you just finished. That must be a super strong motor
Good luck with the fix.

[JD440ICD2006]

I have a smaller Lincoln wire fed but I was not sure if it would penetrate the way the buzz box and stick will.
If I can use my wire fed, that is even better.
The knuckle will not come off of the blade, so I am going to have to do this on site. I cannot load it and take it to a weldeing shop. I am a decent welder and am not in a rush like many shops. They work by the hour and turn it as soon as possible to make the most money and jobs a day. I can take my time.

Yes Ben, this is the 440 ICD that I am compelting. Just a small distraction, I am still exctied that it is running and everything else works.

[Paul Buhler]

Hi: I think the knuckle was originally spun welded to the shaft which usually give a strong consistent bond. If you try to weld it in place now, you will probably get a better weld on the top as compared to the bottom - due to access, which will give an imbalanced joint which will want to tear over time.
I'd encourage you to get the knuckle and shaft off the machine to do this repair - it will allow better alignment and the ability to do your best welding which will hold up better in the long run.

I've done those "no time to do it (correctly)once, but somehow I've found the time to do it twice" repairs.

Good luck. Consider the other suggestions carefully too.

[JD440ICD2006]

I agree and appreciate your input!
I did not spend much time with it over the weekend but that pin seemed to be really stuck bad. It has no cotter pins holding it in place, it is wedged in there. There seems to be no bottom access to push or heat this pin.
That is why I was considering welding it in place. If I could get the pin out, it is a no brainer to grind, and reweld.
There is suffcient access to the rod on the bottom so with careful and planned welding, I believe it could be fairly consistant.
My wire elder would do the trick as it will get in there with no problem, as long as I learn to weld standing on my head.
I believe that stick welder will get in there, will just be a little more effort and time to make it right.
I can tack the top and side portions, then raise the cylinder on the opposite end to gain good access to the bottom area to do my fill and finish welding.

[Paul Buhler]

that pin seemed to be really stuck bad. It has no cotter pins holding it in place, it is wedged in there.

I think the pin is held in place with a spring or roll pin near the top or underneath, which is driven out using a spring pin punch (a drift with a raised center dimple that allows you to drive out without expanding it). The pins are pretty hard and wont drill out, but I've used a torch to heat them up through the center and then gotten them out with the punch (I bought one especially for my lift and angle cylinder removal) - the heated spring/roll pin will need to be replaced.

Are you sure that there is no room to allow the pin to come out ? I couldn't find a blade/cylinder parts breakdown online for your machine - sorry.

Good luck which ever way you go. Paul

http://www.toolfastdirect.co.uk/acatalo ... _large.jpg

[JD440ICD2006]

This pin has no cotter pins or other type of fasters to hold it in. I can see the hole on the top end.
It is in there and not sure how I would pull it out.

[Paul Buhler]

Ok, time for the 440 crowd to weigh in. I'm working from memory on 350s and 450s. I'm sure that some one will be able to shed light on how this cylinder pin is attached and removed.
Paul

[steamfitter99]

7018 would be the preferred rod. I would use 3/32 around 80 - 90 amps to start. You will have to grind. I would bevel it at 35 to 45 degrees so you can get at least 1/3 of the depth welded. Multiple passes, stringers if you will. Let the ram cool after you make a full pass. If you can stick it in a bucket of sand or cat litter that will help slow the cooling down. You are trying to slowly cool it to try and not embrittle the weld to base metal. IE the rod to knuckle. If you leave some of the broken end it will help you align it when you goto repair it. It would appear that the weldment to base metal failed due to improper fusion. Not that uncommon on cylinder ends. If you are not comfortable making the repair you are not looking at much to have a weld shop do it. Just my 2 cents. Tom.

[shinnery]

I have a #64 blade, s/n 627, not on a crawler and I just went out and looked at it. On mine the cyl shaft reduces down to 7/8" and is threaded into the end and locked with a setscrew thru the side of the end. The pin has a collar on the top with a roll pin thru the collar and pin, but also the end of the pin is threaded either 1/2" or 9/16" in the center. I would think if the roll pin was removed some sort of puller could be threaded into the threads in the pin to remove it from the top. There is no way it could be driven out the bottom. None of the cylinders, lift or angling, on mine have any welding where the ends attach to the rods.
Also one of the cylinders has the threaded end broken off on mine, that is how I could determine it was 7/8 threads.
Bryce