Learning more before I buy. Any advice??

[Nick30605]

I've been researching John Deere Crawlers for a couple months. I'm still learning all the details. I'm curious if you guys have any advice for what to look for when buying one. -Any specific items I should watch out for? Any information is greatly appreciated.

[Willyr]

Crawlers are synonymous with boats. You can throw lots of money at them for very little pleasure.

Are you getting it for workability?

What work do you plan to do with it?

If using this for show, mind you (I found out this the hard way), even if it is cute, most clubs only want you to let it be a static display.

[Tigerhaze]

Welcome to the board.

Willy has some good questions you should think about before we give you further advice- if you want to see the kinds of things we will want to know you can read these threads:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... ng&start=0

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... ader+dozer

Once we know your goals for the crawler, we can help recommend a type and model for you and the issues specific to that model.

[JD440ICD2006]

The basic rule of thumb with crawlrs is that you must know John Deere tractors and then you must also know the wear points and how to measure an undercarriage.
The beginings of JD crawlers were tractors turned in to crawlers. Up until the JD 350, there were still basically tractors with tracks instead of wheels. Save the different and beefier drive trains, and few other differences.

DO NOT BUY a recently painted crawler for any reason unless you know for a fact that the entire engine, drivetrain, and undercarriage have been restored.
You are much better off with an ugly one that is mechnically sound.

[Nick30605]

Here's my situation:
I have about 3 acres of wooded land that I intend to work on. About 50% of the land is pretty steep and would most likely tip a standard tractor if not very careful. This is what pulled my attention toward the Crawlers.

I'm fairly handy with most jobs but my mechanical knowledge is not extensive. I'm a finance guy by trade.
Do you have to be a former mechanical engineer to keep any Crawler running?

[440 iron popper]

Do you have to be a former mechanical engineer to keep any Crawler running?

I was new to the crawler world also. Now, I know what the interior of a 440IC looks like. It is a 1958 machine. I'd say you have to like mechanical work for shure. From my short experience, here is what I can say:

Ask the seller if he has the service manual. If not, assume it has been repaired with a method that may be not the best one. You'll hear that his uncle or whatever knew those machines and it's well fixed. If the seller himself can not tell nothing about it...Hummm. Believe me if I sell one of mines, I'll have a lot to tell.

If it has been repaired properly or even restored, ask for receips, pictures or any other proof.

For me, if he doesn't have the manual and he can not show you some proofs of the work done on the machine, it is a project. If you decide to go on the project route, have someone who knows those machines very well to evaluate the undercarriage and the general condion/future repair on the rest. From there, investment of your time and money begins.

Knownledge on this forum is priceless as long as solution sharing.

I like fixing mines but it is time consuming and expensive. Mechanical skills get improved as long as tooling over time!!

[Nick30605]

Thanks for the advice!

[Nick30605]

This is the current one I'm looking at:
John Deere 440
http://www.fastline.com/v100/John-Deere ... ef40d.aspx

[Willyr]

My recommendation is, that since you want to truly work it, that you will need a true bulldozer.

I have had big dozers and small dozers. Since you do have money for something decent I suggest you dont bother with an older antique unless you really want it for the sound. Otherwise I would say nothing smaller than a JD 350. You could get away with a 4-way blade. You will want a 6-way blade, one that you can change from the seat. Dont bother with an older version that you have to manually change. If your in cold climate, you might want to find something with a cab.

As to a mechanical engineer? No, a good shop manual will be fine as long as you understand the difference between a ratchet type torque wrench and a breaker bar. Also helps if you dont try to use wrenches as a hammer. LOL

Here is a video of the 420 I had that I made a 6 way blade on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz4sAynD2mo

A 420 is fun, yet a 350 will give you some comforts the 420 and early tractors lack. Also since you have a hill your working, make sure you have a roll cage.

[dr1zsk1]

I agree if you are buying to play and tinker the older ones are cool. For real work six way from seat, roll cage, and buy ugly. If it was restored there would be receipts.

[andregrondin]

Hi!

I'm no expert but here are couples of tips .

1- you are in a steep woodland then a winch is needed
2- if you need to work fairly fast get a decent machine
3- if you can fix thing by yourself it it a plus
4- yes you will drain some money but at least you'll get plesure out of it
5- make sure you have the manuals that goes with the machine
6- go ahead and shop around to see different crawler so you can judge better
7- the one you have on the link looks like it has been used a lot.

good luck in your project and you are at the right place to get help , people here are simply great .

[Scottyb]

Nick30605,
I have to agree that you are better off stepping up to a 350 unless your interest is having mostly something to play with, and the work can wait whenever you are searching for parts and fixing a very old crawler.
A 350 is still something that will require upkeep however the time it takes to get it back to work if it breaks is going to be much less. I have however, seen some basket case 350's that were run until every part is near exhaustion. and some with the bolts holding the undercarriage left loose until the loader frame is cracking up from the strain! Do not buy one like that! (I have one but bought it for parts)
I purchased a 350b loader to clean up after a tornado cut through my 10 acre old growth forest and discovered right away that, alone it was not going to be enough crawler for pulling the large diameter logs. However the advice I got from this forum was get a winch and log arch and I will think differently. That is what I did and I am now very happy with the set-up I have. The winch in the forest is amazing and I like the loader for pushing down trees and lifting out stumps. (stumps are very hard to get out but many of mine were ripped out when the storm blew the trees over) I am now adding a grapple setup to the top of my bucket for moving brush piles and stacking logs. As well I am putting a ROPS on to save me from falling branches.
I am trying to clean up without making more damage to the forest and my set up is as near perfect for me as I could ever hope.
Good luck with your search
Scott

[Tigerhaze]

Scotty's post touches on some important considerations-whether you should look at a dozer or loader. I thought about weighing in on that but it wasn't clear if you were planning to clear trees with the crawler or not.

if you are planning to fell trees then a loader is going to be handy because you can use the leverage of the loader bucket to push higher up on the tree AND dig around the roots first. A small dozer is going to have a tougher time doing both of those things. A loader will also be able to lift sections of tree trunk onto a trailer or truck if you need to do that.

A dozer is better if you are just grading trails and clearing brush- it will weigh less than a loader for easier transport or pulling out when stuck, be easier to work on for maintenance or when they break down, and usually have better condition undercarriage.

As for model, a late model is going to have better and usually cheaper parts availability but is going to probably require a bigger expenditure at purchase. Condition is everyhting on crawlers and just because it is newer doesn't mean it is better if it was run into the ground. The major components, especially undercarriage, can get expensive in a hurry and wipe out the savings for pusrhcasing an "inexpensive" crawler.

You will need to work on a crawler from time to time, if nothing more than maintenance. Most shops will charge an arm and leg for even simple activities, and many don't know how to work on older crawlers that don't have a computer. Working on older crawlers is not rocket science- it is similar to working on a wheel tractor, except everything is MUCH heavier. Again, a dozer is easier to work on than a loader because the loader arms are invariably in the way.

[JD440ICD2006]

Excellent points, and to add, a comparable loader is going be heavier to haul due to the rear weight stack needed to counter balance the loader bucket loads.

[Willyr]

Another nice point to a loader is you can get or make a thumb for the bucket. The thumb will help you grab logs.

Yes you can get loaders on tracks.