93 hoe is on but doesn't work right

jb660r · Post by **jb660r** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:24 am

So I got the backhoe mounted on my 2010. Plumbed into the output line right off the pump with a "T" and reconnected the existing line that runs to the bucket controls to the other side of the "T". Plumbed the return with a "T" to the line that runs into the bottom of the tank. (Used to be a steel line but someone cut a.section out in the past and put in a section of rubber hose). When I hooked the lines together like I think I should when the hoe is off, the bucket does nothing. When I disconnect them from each other the bucket works as normal. With them attatched to the hoe, the hoe controls only work if I hold the bucket lift, and work the hoe levers until the bucket tops out then the hoe controls work, or if I hold the aux. lever they work. The bucket does not work with the hoe connected. Is thos normal, or did I hook my dozer side lines to the wrong place? I am pretty excited to use it today or asap, but dont want to risk breaking something using it the way it is.

Willyr · Post by **Willyr** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:04 am

I had a similar problem with the remotes on my New Holland 4630. You had to have one lever in gear on the remotes for the bucket to work.

What I did was remove the remotes to hook up something non factory. The remotes were open center and closed only when in gear with nothing attached. By that I mean with the lever in the center the remotes would let the hydraulics not build any pressure.

Sold the tractor to brother in law. He messed around with them and realized why I said to throw them away.
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On a different note, if your dead set to keeping your valves. You may need to get a priority valve. You can then set which tool you want to use, and direct the pressure to one but not both at same time.

srs_mn · Post by **srs_mn** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:02 am

jb660r wrote:So I got the backhoe mounted on my 2010. Plumbed into the output line right off the pump with a "T" and reconnected the existing line that runs to the bucket controls to the other side of the "T".

I'm not sure how the 2010's are set up, but I suspect you need a Power Beyond fitting on the Outlet side of your Loader valve stack like the 350's & 450's have when equipped with a backhoe.
The oil in a system will always take the path of least resistance, and in your case with the 'tee' in the pressure line, it will just cycle around back to the tank until it is blocked -- in your case by dead ending a cylinder and holding the valve, or unhooking the rear hoses forcing it to work the loader normally.
Do a search for Power Beyond fitting to find out more. I would guess a JD Equipment dealer could still get you one.

jb660r · Post by **jb660r** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:40 am

Thanks for the replies guy. I think I may have tapped into the wrong hose. I dug for maybe a minute yesterday and its strong, I just dont wanna ruin the pump or something. Im supposed to dig out a bunch of stumps for my friend today, but I really dont wanna use ot too long the way its set up now.

Gil · Post by **Gil** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:45 pm

You need a Selector Valve which routes the pump pressure to either the loader or the backhoe. Srs_mn's post describes the concept. You can not just put in a "T" pipe fitting. You have an open center hydraulic system.

You can see a diagram of the JD2010 hose plumbing and routing beginning on page 93 of the parts manual for the JD50-51 backhoe. It is available free from the John Deere website. You can also look for the manual for your specific backhoe if it is a John Deere model. Gil

Tigerhaze · Post by **Tigerhaze** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:20 pm

I have 2010 crawler loaders with a Model 50 backhoe that can be mounted to them. It operates by disconnecting two hoses on the crawler joined by quick couplings and mating them to the corresponding hoses on the backhoe. It may run off a power beyond valve but to be honest haven't traced all of the hydraulic hoses recently. Gil's suggestion of looking at the parts diagrams are a good one.

I don't believe there is a selector valve on my loader- my recollection is that you can operate the backhoe and the loader simultaneously, although at reduced speed. I think there was the option of a selector valve if you also had a 4in1 bucket in addition to the rear mounted equipment.

All this is for a loader- the dozers generally came with the smaller Cessna pump so you may be looking at upgrading that as well to get the flow necessary for working a hoe.

I think Jdemaris or others may have discussed this in the archives, if you want to try an author search.

jb660r · Post by **jb660r** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:15 pm

Still trying the search. I looked at a diagram and Im pretty sure I have the power beyond. If Im right its on the outside right inside the cover attatched to the other valves. I did notice that today and there may be a hose coming from it. I was thinking about using it. This one I believe ran into the steel line that runs from the valves to the tank. Im tempted to try it but Ill see what else I can find througb the search unless someone else knows for sure. Thanks again.

Tigerhaze · Post by **Tigerhaze** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:54 am

These are some good threads- although slightly different models than yours are discussed I believe they are open center so the information should be relevant:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... hlight=hoe

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... hlight=hoe

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... hlight=hoe

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... hlight=hoe

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... hlight=hoe

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... sc&start=0

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... 2010+blade

Tigerhaze · Post by **Tigerhaze** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:18 am

Here is the link that Gil mentioned:

http://jdpc.deere.com/jdpc/servlet/com. ... ervlet_Alt

Unfortunately I can't direct link to it but once there you can search for "50" in the model search at the top left and then scroll down to the PDF for "619- 50 and 51 Backhoes". The 50 or 51 would have been the original backhoes equipped on a 2010.

You can also search for "2010" and look at the PDF for the crawler: "728 2010 Series Crawler Tractor" or the loader: "705- 2010 Crawler Loader". To search for dozer blades use "625" and scroll to "698- 616, 624, 625 and 626 Bulldozers" or "622" and scroll to "697- 622 Bulldozer".

Just be careful which diagrams you look at as there were many configurations for the rear mounted attachments, 4 in 1 bucket, three point, etc.

jb660r · Post by **jb660r** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:03 pm

Awesome, thanks. I dont know what my search issue is. Part of it could be frustration lol

Gil · Post by **Gil** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:54 pm

I went back and read you initial post about buying the backhoe and it was not clear if your JD2010 had ever had a backhoe on it before or not. If not, it will not be configured with a Selector Valve. The valve will not be a part of the backhoe either. You will have to add it.

The Power Beyond configuration gives power to the far side (beyond) a hydraulic control valve. What you have been discussing instead is putting in a “T” before the hydraulic control and that will not work unless the “T” is a Selector Valve “T”. A Power Beyond valve could be on the loader or the backhoe and then route from there to the other one. It might be possible to do it this way, but if it was not already configured on your crawler I would not recommend that you try to design it yourself. Gil

jb660r · Post by **jb660r** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:26 pm

Im going to try to get some pictures of my valves and levers in the next day or two. The guy I bought the machine from said the original owner had a hoe, so thats what I have to go on. I have an extra lever next to the bucket control that I guess is for a ripper, 4-1, etc. Beside that close to the cover is another valve type looking body with no lever but if I remember right does have a hose coming out of it that runs into the steel line that runs from the bottom of the tank across the rear and into the valve box. Its 6:20 pm here now, Im thinking about running up and getting some pics tonight. Will it do any damage if I lock the aux lever back and use ot that way for now? I did it for a couple minutes and it worked great and there were no funny noises or anything. Didnt run it too long though.

jb660r · Post by **jb660r** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:49 am

I have some pictures of my valve area and hoses. I use my phone and dont have a program to resize them for posting. Can I email them to one of you and you can post them? That way it points me in the right direction and maybe help someone in the future, someone who can use the search funtion lol thanks

jb660r · Post by **jb660r** » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:32 pm

I figured it out! Basically there was a hyd. line that went from the "power beyond"? to a fitting in the middle of the 1" steel line that runs from the valve area to the tank. An easy way to explain what I did is, I cut that hose, ran one to the in on the hoe, and ran the other to the out. I actually did have hoses made and did it the right way but you get the idea. Thanks for your replies, I always appreciate any help I can get. I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future.

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93 hoe is on but doesn't work right

93 hoe is on but doesn't work right

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