440 gas wheel tractor reverser bind

[drummer]

Its been awhile since I've been here asking advice but I've been following all the great info. I have a late 59 440 wheel tractor with factory loader, 5 speed, and reverser. It had sat outside about two years which resulted in a stuck clutch from mice doing their thing. I managed to free it up by removing the starter and using a long 1/2" extension and hammer tapping on the face of the pressure plate in the flat area next to the disk rotating the clutch around.. I drove the tractor around the yard for an hour previous to this fix with no luck. It now works fine and is in adjustment. The reverser works fine except when its in the reverse position and backing and than pushing in the clutch the tractor will slow as though something is binding. Theres no grinding or noise. It acts like a brake is applying. I adjusted both front and rear reverser clutches to spec per the tech manual and even backed both clutches off to the point of being loose to no effect. I changed the oil to Deere's hy gard trans fluid. It works fine when going forward. I checked for any debris in the bottom of the case when changing the oil and find none. It was full of red trans oil when I started work on it. Any ideas. Thanks Drummer

[LarryD]

I have been going through one of these reversers on my crawler recently, and the only thing I can think of that would cause that would be either the spider gear bearings going bad or the input or output gear bearing in the reverser going bad. The only time those bearings actually run is when the reverser is in the reverse position. I would have thought that you would have seen a little metal in the oil if this was the case though. Keep us posted on what you find out.

Larry

[drummer]

Thanks for the reply. There was absolutely no metal in the bottom of the case. The case drain plug had some gunk in it but no metal filings. I fished around with a flexible magnet. Today I drove it around in a gravel yard in reverse thinking its been a long while since this tractor ran in an attempt to free it up. I noticed the engine labored with the clutch engaged with the reverser in reverse. In fourth gear ( its backing up quick) after running awhile I had the clutch freeze again. I couldn't shift the trans unless I shut it off. It quickly unfroze with reverser going forward . The reverse problem when pushing the clutch in doesn't go away. Is it possible something is wrong with the clutch? Seems like a huge job to get this all apart. Other than this bind problem this is a nice running tractor. Thanks again - Drummer

[LarryD]

From what I am hearing the engine is laboring with the clutch engaged, reverser in reverse and transmission in neutral. If this is correct, and if it doesn't labor the engine with the clutch engaged, reverser in forward, and transmission in neutral, then you definately have a problem with the reverser. If one of the needle bearings has siezed the amount of metal that will be present in the oil will be pretty minimal until it gets so bad that it starts crunching up the needles and spitting them out. If this is the scenario you are facing, the only way to know for sure is to break it open and see what is going on in that reverser. And yes.....it is a lot of work, but from the way it sounds, I think it is your only option if its gonna be done right. As for the clutch binding......I think that is a whole other problem altogether......not related to reverser issue.

[LarryD]

From what I am hearing the engine is laboring with the clutch engaged, reverser in reverse and transmission in neutral. If this is correct, and if it doesn't labor the engine with the clutch engaged, reverser in forward, and transmission in neutral, then you definately have a problem with the reverser. If one of the needle bearings has siezed the amount of metal that will be present in the oil will be pretty minimal until it gets so bad that it starts crunching up the needles and spitting them out. If this is the scenario you are facing, the only way to know for sure is to break it open and see what is going on in that reverser. And yes.....it is a lot of work, but from the way it sounds, I think it is your only option if its gonna be done right. As for the clutch binding......I think that is a whole other problem altogether......not related to reverser issue.

[drummer]

After reading the very good advice I've narrowed the problem to the front bearing in the reverser. With the reverser side cover removed I've got play in the front bearing. The reverser clutches seem ok and its hard to tell if the spider gears have a problem but I don't find play in them. I even removed the transmission shifter cover and took a look in the trans. No play in any of the bearings and very clean looking teeth. This bears out when I drive the tractor around and it works good with no noise. I've decided to leave it as is because I'm not working the tractor and if I did I won't use the reverser in reverse instead using the transmission reverse gear. At least both reverser and trans have fresh oil in them now and I verified I have no metal filings in the case bottoms. I've also just bought another 440 wheel tractor with many more options and in very good condition so I may sell the first tractor. I'm rewiring the first tractor now as I do not want any fires and also have discovered the power steering doesn't work. I love to work on these tractors but time is a factor and don't want a major project sitting in the shop corner. Thanks for the advice again. Drummer

[LarryD]

Glad to help, as are all of the guys here. Bummer about the reverser, but good that the tractor is still useable.

[Mark Birdeau]

I'm not at all familiar with the wheeled model. But my 440ICD did something similar. What the problem was, the reverser housing was loose where mounted to the transmission. Although I would think that on a wheeled tractor that it would be more visible then on a crawler.

Mark:

[drummer]

I couldn't just let this be and today split the tractor and took the reverser all apart. First off all bearings and seals are good. There is play in the front shaft bearing but no more than normal - no metal filings anywhere. The center housing, planetary gears, and bearings spin with ease and look fine. I did find that it's installed backwards. Its suppose to have a F-front and a R-rear stamped into the housing but I can't find any. Looking at the parts book I can tell it's backwards. Next I found that the front clutch has two of the four metal plates - the centers - froze in place. They are scored pretty good and whats surprising is that the fiber plates in between look pretty good. They have some grooves but appear usable. This appears to be causing the bind when the reverser is in reverse. The front clutch can't be releasing completely. That would explain no noise when its happening. I have to go to local repair shop to have the big nut holding the rear clutch in because I don't have that large a socket but inspecting it still in the case it looks ok. As long as I have it apart I will go through it to. The metal ears that are suppose to be locking the nut in place are straight. Looks like this has been repaired before by someone with his mind elsewhere. New metal clutch plates, installing the diff housing the right way, and checking the end play should fix it. Any other helpful tips appreciated. Thanks Drummer

[LarryD]

Glad to hear you found the problem. I never would have imagined that, but can definately see how that would.cause a problem. Here is a pic of a socket wrench I made to pull the rear clutch out of my crawler.
http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/83418390@N07/7642285326/
It's not fancy but it gets the job done.

[Lavoy]

Be sure and check the rear hub to make sure it is installed correctly. If not, it makes it impossible to adjust the rear clutch pack.
Lavoy