440icd Engine Removal

jac · Post by **jac** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:14 pm

Well this project is taking longer than planned. Anyway, finals and steering clutches are done and installed. Rear of the machine is back together. Bottom (rollers, rails and front idlers) is done but I have not reinstalled the tracks yet. Now need to work on the frozen engine clutch which I am sure is rusted, and know is very stuck.

Can the engine be removed without pulling apart all the loader arms (831 Loader). Looks like there is room to get to everything but thought I would ask before attacking this part of the machine.

BKahler · Post by **BKahler** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:21 pm

Jac,

From what I remember when I pulled the engine on my 440ICD you have to pull it about 4 to 6 inches to clear the transmission (reverser?) input shaft. After that I think you can lift straight up with it. My biggest problem was the brush guard on top of my push blade. I couldn't lift my backhoe high enough to clear the engine over the brush guard. After lifting it as high as I could I drove in from the side with m other front end loader and picked the engine up in the bucket. Rather looked like a rube goldberg affair but it worked!

Good luck!

Brad

lastchancegarage · Post by **lastchancegarage** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:44 am

Jac,
Not sure if you're planning to go into the engine once you have it out but if so, you might want to break torque on those head bolts before removing the engine. Might save you a little wrestling time. Just my 2 cents.

Scott

BKahler · Post by **BKahler** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:50 am

Boy can I vouch for that one! Took forever to break those head bolts looks with the engine sitting on the floor. Definitely take Scott's advice and break the bolts loose while still mounted to the crawler. It'll save you a whole lot of swearing later on!

Brad
(been there done that!)

jac · Post by **jac** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:51 pm

Thanks for the tips. I have been watching the "Head Bolt War" posting. The plan is to simply remove the engine and work on the clutch. Engine was running OK when I pulled this into my garage last fall. I may turn it over just to check it is still OK before I pull this thing out.

jac · Post by **jac** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:35 pm

Well after being in the garage since last September, decided to start the old diesel in the 440 before attacking the engine clutch repair. Since I ran the engine very little when I bought this crawler last fall, I did not want to try taking the engine apart once it was out of the machine if some repair was required. Engine started in about three turns, amazing. Runs great so looks like no major work required.

First time to check out the new steering clutches, brakes and final drive rebuild. Crawler is still up on jack stands since I have the tracks off but everything seems to be working fine. So time to pull the engine and repair the frozen (rusted) engine clutch. Looking forward to driving this out and actually being able to steer this beast.

BKahler · Post by **BKahler** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:57 pm

jac wrote:Well after being in the garage since last September, decided to start the old diesel in the 440 before attacking the engine clutch repair. Since I ran the engine very little when I bought this crawler last fall, I did not want to try taking the engine apart once it was out of the machine if some repair was required. Engine started in about three turns, amazing. Runs great so looks like no major work required.

First time to check out the new steering clutches, brakes and final drive rebuild. Crawler is still up on jack stands since I have the tracks off but everything seems to be working fine. So time to pull the engine and repair the frozen (rusted) engine clutch. Looking forward to driving this out and actually being able to steer this beast.

I can only wish my engine was in such good shape.

I'll be curious to hear as to whether you have any dirt packed into your bellhousing. Mine was PACKED full of dirt. Took me a while to find the clutch pressure plate under all the dirt in there.

Have you been taking pictures? Wouldn't mind seeing some if you did.

Brad

jac · Post by **jac** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:51 pm

Brad:

I will take some pics when I get to the bellhousing. I was happy the engine worked after sitting so long. Need to do some rearranging of my garage to get my gantry over the front of my machine and then pull out the engine.

Howard Yoder · Post by **Howard Yoder** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:40 pm

With or without either if that engine started in 3 turns after sitting that long there is nothing wrong with that engine. I think that would have to almost be a record for a 253

jac · Post by **jac** » Sun May 07, 2006 8:42 am

Need a little advice on getting this engine out. I believe I have all the bolts out as per the service manual. Engine is loose, support by an overhead gantry, and can be rotated relative to the bell housing. To me that indicates all the bolts are out including the front support mounts. The problem is the engine will not pull forward and separate from the bell housing. There is a small gap between the engine and the bell housing and I can get a screw driver in the gap to try and wedge this forward, but it is not releasing.

Any suggestions? I am sure everything is rusted in the clutch, can this be hanging this thing up?

BKahler · Post by **BKahler** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:17 am

jac wrote:Need a little advice on getting this engine out. I believe I have all the bolts out as per the service manual. Engine is loose, support by an overhead gantry, and can be rotated relative to the bell housing. To me that indicates all the bolts are out including the front support mounts. The problem is the engine will not pull forward and separate from the bell housing. There is a small gap between the engine and the bell housing and I can get a screw driver in the gap to try and wedge this forward, but it is not releasing.

Any suggestions? I am sure everything is rusted in the clutch, can this be hanging this thing up?

If the splines in the clutch disc are rusted to the input shaft I would imagine it will be hard to separate. My ICD was packed with dirt and mud inside the bellhousing so much so that I couldn't see the pressure plate when I first got it apart. Not enough to keep them stuck together however. I did have to pry between the bell housing and reverser (?) some with a large pry bar to get them to come apart. I would think if you pried evenly on each side at the same time you can't do any real damage. Something has to give..........

Good luck,

Brad

jac · Post by **jac** » Sun May 07, 2006 10:04 am

Brad:

Thanks. I am trying to separate the engine between the clutch housing and what I htink is called the flywheel cover. The reverser is behind the clutch housing. I took a peek in the access cover in the clutch housing and everything looks very clean. So will keep wiggling and prying to see if this will separate. It has moved about 1/8" but it being stubborn.

Post by **Lavoy** » Sun May 07, 2006 10:10 am

Is there a flywheel cover on the bottom like on a gas crawler that needs to be removed?
Push in the clutch just for the heck of it and see what happens, might wiggle something loose.
Lavoy

BKahler · Post by **BKahler** » Sun May 07, 2006 10:18 am

Lavoy wrote:Is there a flywheel cover on the bottom like on a gas crawler that needs to be removed?
Push in the clutch just for the heck of it and see what happens, might wiggle something loose.
Lavoy

The ICD bell housings make a complete circle unlike the gas crawlers. When I refered to the reverser I wasn't sure if its the reverser or the transmission that is closest to the engine.

If you removed 2 large (5/8"?) bolts and two 5/8" (?) nuts that is all I think that bolts the bell housing to the engine. If you would like I can take a digital pic of where I separated mine so you can see what it looks like in there.

Brad

jac · Post by **jac** » Sun May 07, 2006 1:19 pm

I believe there are 2 bolts near the top of the clutch housing and then 4 studs, two on each side of the engine. As far as I can tell, that is all that connects the clutch housing to the engine.

I tried pushing in the clutch a few times, still hung up. Time to get my son on the other side so we can pry from both sides together. It has moved a little so it justs needs a little more persuasion.

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440icd Engine Removal

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