420 crawler advice needed
420 crawler advice needed
Hi new member here. I discovered this board and wondered if anyone could give me some advice. My grandfather had a 420 crawler he used on his farm. It was parked running with new clutches about 25 years ago or so. It has been under a shelter and out of the weather for the most part except maybe blowing rain at times. About a year ago my dad and I put a new battery in and tried to start it. All we got was a snap/click of the starter trying to turn it over. The enging seems to be seized. We filled it with baking soda and Marvel Mystery oil to try to see if anything would loosen. Recently I have tried to pick the project back up. I have tried to turn the pulley manually with a pipe wrench and the pulley turns slightly but it doesn't seem to turn the engine over. I thought maybe I could pull the crawler with our skid steer and pop the clutch to see if the engine would loosen that way. Is that a good idea or not? Any help is appreciated. Thanks JD.[/img]
If you really think it is stuck, don't pull it, keep trying to turn the engine with the pulley til you know it will turn over.
Lavoy
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
- JD440ICD2006
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 1113
- Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:57 pm
- Location: South Carolina
Based on what you have described, pulling it off and popping the clutch would not be suggested.
If the engine cannot be turned over at all with the way you described, something is preventing it. Pulling it off is not going to fix that issue, but likely do even more damage.
The best way is to go in to see why it is siezed. You can possibly do an inframe if there is no loader or blade in the way.
Even if "miracle" juice is put in it and it lossens, there could be damage to the cylinder walls or rings.
If water or other fuild is in the combustion chamber, it will damage the piston, head, and other parts if it is forced to turn.
Have you tried pulling the spark plugs to see if it will turn?
If the engine cannot be turned over at all with the way you described, something is preventing it. Pulling it off is not going to fix that issue, but likely do even more damage.
The best way is to go in to see why it is siezed. You can possibly do an inframe if there is no loader or blade in the way.
Even if "miracle" juice is put in it and it lossens, there could be damage to the cylinder walls or rings.
If water or other fuild is in the combustion chamber, it will damage the piston, head, and other parts if it is forced to turn.
Have you tried pulling the spark plugs to see if it will turn?
1959 JD 440ICD w/64 Power Angle Tilt Blade
1959 JD 440ICD w/63 Manual Angle Blade
1959 JD 440IC w/602 Manual Angle Blade
1959 JD 730D W SE (many options)
1950 JD M S w/M-20 Mower
1952 JD M W
1955 FORD 640 (burns the most fuel)
1959 JD 440ICD w/63 Manual Angle Blade
1959 JD 440IC w/602 Manual Angle Blade
1959 JD 730D W SE (many options)
1950 JD M S w/M-20 Mower
1952 JD M W
1955 FORD 640 (burns the most fuel)
-
- 2010 crawler
- Posts: 622
- Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:02 am
- Location: Steubenville, OH
Odds are, you'll need to pull it apart. Even if it was froze up and you got it freed up, the odds of it running decent are slim to none.
You got to think, you'll have cylinder walls that are in bad shape, rings that might be stuck, valves not sealing well. So the majority of your compression is going to be lost.
You got to think, you'll have cylinder walls that are in bad shape, rings that might be stuck, valves not sealing well. So the majority of your compression is going to be lost.
Ben
Great Grandpa's 1960 440ICD 602 blade
Between SN's: 455,633 - 456,801
Currently Rebuilding/Restoring
Great Grandpa's 1960 440ICD 602 blade
Between SN's: 455,633 - 456,801
Currently Rebuilding/Restoring
take the plugs out and load up the holes with some PB Blaster, work the motor back and forth as much as you can with the crank pulley. its sometimes a long process but I've had success with it before. got a farmall m motor unstuck this way before. best bet is to just tear it down and rebuild it from scratch.
Home of the free because of the BRAVE!!!
1957 420 5 roller 5 speed
1957 420 5 roller 5 speed
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- 1010 crawler
- Posts: 353
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:53 pm
- Location: Columbus Ohio
Thanks everyone for the responses and good advice. The pulley now turns pretty much with ease with a pipe wrench. I removed the plugs and still the engine does not turn over. I removed the valve cover and see no issues but I am no engine man. Can I test the valves to see if they are stuck and if so how? Sorry I have general knowledge but don't know how the valves should be if they are not stuck.
Maybe I am missing something, but if the pulley is turning, the engine is turning or the crankshaft is broken.
Lavoy
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
what do you mean the pulley is turning freely but the engine isn't turning over??
with the valve cover off turn the crank shaft pulley and watch the top end of the motor. you should see the rocker arms move. if they do not pull the head off and start there. get a service first off and you can download a copy of the parts manual in pdf format. these are a must have!! in the parts manual section 10-6 shows and exploded view of the cam, valves, push rods, rocker arms, etc. section 10-4 is the crank and piston assembly.
with the valve cover off turn the crank shaft pulley and watch the top end of the motor. you should see the rocker arms move. if they do not pull the head off and start there. get a service first off and you can download a copy of the parts manual in pdf format. these are a must have!! in the parts manual section 10-6 shows and exploded view of the cam, valves, push rods, rocker arms, etc. section 10-4 is the crank and piston assembly.
Home of the free because of the BRAVE!!!
1957 420 5 roller 5 speed
1957 420 5 roller 5 speed
Ok guys thanks for the help. I tried draining the oil and filling it back up with PB Blaster. I made a handle to turn the crank and it will turn but not easily. I pulled the plugs and when I move the crank PB Blaster comes out of one plug hole but the other does not. It appears that that cylinder does not move at all. I have been waiting patiently for the Blaster to work more on that side for a few days. I know it is necessary to rebuild this thing for the long run but how much am I talking cost wise without any labor for the parts I would need? Thanks in advance! JD
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- Captainjoe
- 430 crawler
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:53 am
- Location: Sandyville WV
the best rust remover is acetone and transmission fluid 50/50 mix...
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/ ... 650/page1/
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/ ... 650/page1/
It's better to seek forgivness than to ask for permission...
- JD440ICD2006
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 1113
- Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:57 pm
- Location: South Carolina
Engine rebuild is not too expensive and parts are available from Lavoy.
It really depends on what is wrong inside as to the total parts cost. You may get by with an inframe rebuild, or you may need other parts and machine shop work.
It really depends on what is wrong inside as to the total parts cost. You may get by with an inframe rebuild, or you may need other parts and machine shop work.
1959 JD 440ICD w/64 Power Angle Tilt Blade
1959 JD 440ICD w/63 Manual Angle Blade
1959 JD 440IC w/602 Manual Angle Blade
1959 JD 730D W SE (many options)
1950 JD M S w/M-20 Mower
1952 JD M W
1955 FORD 640 (burns the most fuel)
1959 JD 440ICD w/63 Manual Angle Blade
1959 JD 440IC w/602 Manual Angle Blade
1959 JD 730D W SE (many options)
1950 JD M S w/M-20 Mower
1952 JD M W
1955 FORD 640 (burns the most fuel)
i would say you have NOT gotten a full turn on the crank yet ...if you get PB BLASTER pushed out on one cly. then you have moved that piston towards TDC you need to work the crank back and forth and hope that you will get a full turn some time in this lifetime ....if its that stuck and you finally get a full turn i dont think i would do much more than get it started and check out a few things.... if i did even that before i pulled the head and pan.... PS she looks to be in pretty good shape (tracks ECT.)
Last edited by jtrichard on Thu May 30, 2013 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper
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