I am rebuilding the steering clutches on my Crawler after they were slipping and have run into some problems with the rebuild parts.
1. The new fiber clutches are .155 thick not the .170 -.190 specked in the manual. Is this OK? Some of my old ones are .155 and others are thicker to .190".
2. The stack height with all new fibers is not adequate to allow enough contact with the pressure plate. I doubled in another fiber disk to make up the difference but now its two high and I can't get any freeeplay for the throwout bearing. Any recommendations?
1955 JD 40C Steering Clutch Rebuild Problems
Stack height information:
A 420 uses 7 fibers and 6 steels.
The fibers should be from .145"(min) - .151"(new) thick
The steels should be from . 090"(min) - .096"(new) thick
Total stack height of the 7 fibers and 6 steels should be 1.555" (bare min) to 1.633"(all new)
A 40 uses 6 fibers and 5 steels
The fibers should be from .183"(min) - .193"(new) thick
The steels should be from . 090"(min) - .096"(new) thick
Total stack height of 6 fibers and 5 steels should be 1.548" (bare min) to 1.638"(all new)
As you can see the total clutch stack thickness is virtually the same but the number of disks is different by two, one fiber and one steel. If in fact this is the problem, then you are going to have to slip in an additional steel or two depending on where you fall within the stack height range. You can be right at the total thickness, but DO NOT exceed the maximum height or the clutch will not release, been there done that. You can also see that the total stack range is about .090" of the thickness on one steel.
CPeter
A 420 uses 7 fibers and 6 steels.
The fibers should be from .145"(min) - .151"(new) thick
The steels should be from . 090"(min) - .096"(new) thick
Total stack height of the 7 fibers and 6 steels should be 1.555" (bare min) to 1.633"(all new)
A 40 uses 6 fibers and 5 steels
The fibers should be from .183"(min) - .193"(new) thick
The steels should be from . 090"(min) - .096"(new) thick
Total stack height of 6 fibers and 5 steels should be 1.548" (bare min) to 1.638"(all new)
As you can see the total clutch stack thickness is virtually the same but the number of disks is different by two, one fiber and one steel. If in fact this is the problem, then you are going to have to slip in an additional steel or two depending on where you fall within the stack height range. You can be right at the total thickness, but DO NOT exceed the maximum height or the clutch will not release, been there done that. You can also see that the total stack range is about .090" of the thickness on one steel.
CPeter
40C, 420U, Dubuques for 35 years
clutch disc info
CPeter,
I haven't checked the site in a couple months. Just returned home, and got back to my 420 job. I'm into the second steering clutch. My disks look good, but I was pondering the proper thickness.
Didn't even have to do any heavy handed searching. There it was right there in front of me.
Thanks
Gary
I haven't checked the site in a couple months. Just returned home, and got back to my 420 job. I'm into the second steering clutch. My disks look good, but I was pondering the proper thickness.
Didn't even have to do any heavy handed searching. There it was right there in front of me.
Thanks
Gary
The gauge is $10.
The setting process is the same for engine or steering. The gauge sets on the face of the flywheel or brake drum. The fingers are adjusted to clear the gauge.
The problem with pressure plates, new or rebuilt is that they are set to a standard on a table somewhere in East Lost Gumshoe. Due to machining tolerances in the brake drum, thickness differences in fiber and steel discs, this setting may or may not have any relevance whatsoever to the machine om which you are installing the pressure plate. The gauge allows the pressure plate to be set so it is correct for the application onto which it is installed.
It might be a poor analogy, but you would not just install new bearings in a ring and pinion without going through the setup process. A pressure plate is really no different other than it will not be damaged by lack of adjustment, you will just not get as much life, or as strong a clutch.
I know one should not make blanket statements, but I feel quite confident in saying that I have NEVER installed a pressure plate and had it be at the correct height. Does this mean it will not work, of course not, and for the average user, it will likely provide perfectly acceptable performance for as long as they own the machine. I look at it this way, I HATE pulling final drives, it sucks, and I have done probably a couple hundred times. It takes me all of 10 minutes to set a pressure plate once installed, so why not take the extra time to do it correctly. I have had to pull a few finals before I had a gauge and set them the hard way because the freshly rebuilt pressure plate was so far out of adjustment that the clutch adjustment procedure could not be done. I have about $150 worth of MAC specialty wrenches (3 of them) that I bought to try and fix a pressure plate without pulling the final again. In hindsight it make the gauge look pretty cheap when I finally found one.
Lavoy
The setting process is the same for engine or steering. The gauge sets on the face of the flywheel or brake drum. The fingers are adjusted to clear the gauge.
The problem with pressure plates, new or rebuilt is that they are set to a standard on a table somewhere in East Lost Gumshoe. Due to machining tolerances in the brake drum, thickness differences in fiber and steel discs, this setting may or may not have any relevance whatsoever to the machine om which you are installing the pressure plate. The gauge allows the pressure plate to be set so it is correct for the application onto which it is installed.
It might be a poor analogy, but you would not just install new bearings in a ring and pinion without going through the setup process. A pressure plate is really no different other than it will not be damaged by lack of adjustment, you will just not get as much life, or as strong a clutch.
I know one should not make blanket statements, but I feel quite confident in saying that I have NEVER installed a pressure plate and had it be at the correct height. Does this mean it will not work, of course not, and for the average user, it will likely provide perfectly acceptable performance for as long as they own the machine. I look at it this way, I HATE pulling final drives, it sucks, and I have done probably a couple hundred times. It takes me all of 10 minutes to set a pressure plate once installed, so why not take the extra time to do it correctly. I have had to pull a few finals before I had a gauge and set them the hard way because the freshly rebuilt pressure plate was so far out of adjustment that the clutch adjustment procedure could not be done. I have about $150 worth of MAC specialty wrenches (3 of them) that I bought to try and fix a pressure plate without pulling the final again. In hindsight it make the gauge look pretty cheap when I finally found one.
Lavoy
-
Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2898
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Yup, yup, yup, yup, yup - Since none of y'all can see me sitting here vigourously shaking my head up and down!Lavoy wrote: ...I HATE pulling final drives, it sucks... Lavoy
I have a special gauge and set of wrenches dad made in the machine shop back when we had the Deere dealership because *he* hated pulling the finals to correct this particular problem when someone decided to replace the clutch packs themownselves.
Of course, they'd bite the bullet and bring the thing into the shop and have it done properly. Dad made the special tools because if one could pull this trick off without pulling the finals back off it was great!
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Stan,
I don't really understand how it could be done without removing the finals, but I'm definitely not a machinist...not much of a mechanic, either.
I've ordered the guage from Lavoy. That's undoubtedly much quicker than an un-mechanic like me trying to build a sufficient guage.
Fortunately, it's looking like someone has replaced a bunch of stuff not too many hours ago. I have almost full depth on the disk pack, and the throw out bearings seem to be set about where they should be in new installations. No busted teeth on any of the gears, and all the carrier bearings seem snug. I may get lucky.
As we speak, I'm trying to worry out the stub of a busted stud bolt (one of the clutch case mounting studs) that is much harder than any drills I have on hand. Maybe just a little lucky.
Gary
I don't really understand how it could be done without removing the finals, but I'm definitely not a machinist...not much of a mechanic, either.
I've ordered the guage from Lavoy. That's undoubtedly much quicker than an un-mechanic like me trying to build a sufficient guage.
Fortunately, it's looking like someone has replaced a bunch of stuff not too many hours ago. I have almost full depth on the disk pack, and the throw out bearings seem to be set about where they should be in new installations. No busted teeth on any of the gears, and all the carrier bearings seem snug. I may get lucky.
As we speak, I'm trying to worry out the stub of a busted stud bolt (one of the clutch case mounting studs) that is much harder than any drills I have on hand. Maybe just a little lucky.
Gary
1955 JD 40C Steering Clutch Rebuild Problems
I completed rebuilding both steering clutches with resurfaced clutch plates and new .155' fibers. The steel discs were rust pitted so I worked them together in a tub of fine sandblast sand and water. I had to double up one fiber on each side to get the right height
Both clutches worked well and last week working about 200 yards of rocky soil with large rocks up to 2000 lbs and a lot of steep grade work. I am very impressed with this little guy now that it is working great.
The dozer has a three spool valve with a two position diverter to give it about 8 to 12 in, tilt using the cylinders independently. This feature is invaluable for a dozer and saves lots of time. The hnydraulic /ripper scarfer setup on the back also is very handy for picking out large rocks.
RB
Both clutches worked well and last week working about 200 yards of rocky soil with large rocks up to 2000 lbs and a lot of steep grade work. I am very impressed with this little guy now that it is working great.
The dozer has a three spool valve with a two position diverter to give it about 8 to 12 in, tilt using the cylinders independently. This feature is invaluable for a dozer and saves lots of time. The hnydraulic /ripper scarfer setup on the back also is very handy for picking out large rocks.
RB
ROSS B.
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