fuel in the oil 1010 loader

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bobz
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fuel in the oil 1010 loader

Post by bobz » Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:03 pm

hi what a mess, I just bought this loader a couple weeks ago. runs great no leaks hydr's and cly good too!. I know it had an issues with fuel in the oil when I purchase it. I went ahead an changed it and watched it closely with several passes digging test on my pond oil seemed fine. went to start it today i pumped the primer twice turned left on the key for glow plugs for 30 sec then cranked it fired right up!. while sitting there waiting for the eng. to smooth out, here comes all this fluid running out in the gravel drive . I shutter down. I was baffled to what I was seeing, I pulled the dip stick. it was full of fuel I pulled the oil plug, right then and there it was about 3 1/2 gals of oil and fuel came out not including what dumped on the ground I guess the the oil pan gasket has a crack in it the drain pan with spout was filled to the rim. what the !!! made this happen ?? that was the second eng flush she's had since I've owned it. seen a couple post about inj pump o ring on output shaft. that leaks in the crank case.... BUT LIKE THIS !! I want to know if the primer had anything to do with it ,me pumping twice that it got stuck??? or is it the all in the injector pump? inj pump kits just comes with orings and gaskets . before I pull the inj pmp should I try to find top dead center on the motor before I pull it? for timing issues ? any help about attacking this , lacking diesel mechanic exp. not afraid to try... what beats a failure is a try bobz

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Tigerhaze
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Post by Tigerhaze » Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:18 pm

The umbrella seals on your injector pump have failed, allowing fuel from the injection pump to enter the crankcase. There really isn't any other way that fuel can directly enter the crankcase with that type of engine and injection pump, that I know of. The primer on a 1010 injects fuel directly into the intake so wouldn't have to do with that.

There are a number of threads on this board discussing the steps to take when pulling a DB pump. If you do a search for subject "1010 AND injection AND pump" with author "jdemaris" you will find quite a few of them as he is the injection pump guru.

If you have a hard time finding any of those, I will try to find but don't have the time at the moment. Also not to nag, but you really should get the service manual for your machine so you can read the steps without trying to guess them. You really don't want to be taking the injection pump apart willy-nilly; you wouldn't get too far without a Bristol wrench anyhow.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

bobz
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Post by bobz » Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:42 pm

Tigerhaze wrote:The umbrella seals on your injector pump have failed, allowing fuel from the injection pump to enter the crankcase. There really isn't any other way that fuel can directly enter the crankcase with that type of engine and injection pump, that I know of. The primer on a 1010 injects fuel directly into the intake so wouldn't have to do with that.

There are a number of threads on this board discussing the steps to take when pulling a DB pump. If you do a search for subject "1010 AND injection AND pump" with author "jdemaris" you will find quite a few of them as he is the injection pump guru.

If you have a hard time finding any of those, I will try to find but don't have the time at the moment. Also not to nag, but you really should get the service manual for your machine so you can read the steps without trying to guess them. You really don't want to be taking the injection pump apart willy-nilly; you wouldn't get too far without a Bristol wrench anyhow thank you for your reply and yes I have ordered all the books from john deere operator,service,parts they should come today

bobz
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Post by bobz » Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:50 pm

thank you tigerhaze, sounds like a possible fix then . I did order all the manuals parts, operator, service should be here today actually.. ok I will look I have been through half of these post just learning what I can bobz

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Tigerhaze
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Post by Tigerhaze » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:13 pm

I found the thread that will help you most on pulling the pump and reinstalling:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... ction+pump

I should have also mentioned that there is a brass bushing that is worn on the shaft adjacent to the umbrella seals that is the cause of the leak- this is a thread for the injection pump on a 450 but the fix should be the same:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... rella+seal

Go about 1/2 way down the first page to Jdemaris's post and you will find it. Confirm your injection pump model number before you order parts as sometimes people swap pumps out before you ever got the machine.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

bobz
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Post by bobz » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:59 pm

thanks guys ! for your passion and concern on mine and everyone eles problems , we all learn from each other. very good info my old lady said the manuals came. I won't be talking with her tonight !! I will be reading hehehe. oh! will I need to order new washers when I remove the fuel lines from the injector pump if they have them?

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jtrichard
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Post by jtrichard » Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:21 pm

I have reused the banjo washers before just DON'T lose any of them make sure that they are all in before you tighten the lines back up or VERY BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN I have had the primer pump leak into the engine but generally it will fill one cylinder with fuel not much gets past the rings but i have also had the umbrella seals fail and that sure will fill the pan .... also when looking for posts on the pump look for 2010 also same thing
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper

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vailvalley59
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Post by vailvalley59 » Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:37 pm

I have used sealing rings over again--I sand them with wet-dry paper on a flat surface and have as good results this way-- as good as with new seals, The older ones are copper and the new ones are who knows what.
2010 diesel loader, IH 886, Cat 1947 D4 dozer, IH 966, Ford 7000, IH 2500, IH 706 and other toys

bobz
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fuel in the oil

Post by bobz » Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:55 pm

I took the injector pump and the belly pan off this morning before going to work. I didn't really see evidence that fuel was leaking out through the shaft or through the oil pan gasket so it had to out come out the dipstick. still baffled about the big area where it ran in my gravel drive . I talked to a guy at antrim it's a shop in pa. # 717-597-7963 that rebuilds injector pumps , I told him my situation about what happen plus not finding fuel on the injector pump shaft... he said it could be another pump that on the other side with fuel filters that will malfunction and dump fuel in the crackcase . he said he would tear my inj pump down for to see what was wrong with at no charge ! he said it could cost $650 to rebuild wow!! I don't have time to do any search on the other side of the motor yet. hit me up if you guys have any clues thanks bobz

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jtrichard
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Post by jtrichard » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:17 pm

there is NO place on the other side of the engine that would let fuel in the pan ( there is NO other fuel pump like on the later JDs like 350).... if it was running good i would just replaced the umbrella seals and called it a day .... there is ONLY two ways that fuel could possibly get in the pan through those seals or through the primer pump but then it would have to get past the rings and when you went to start it , it would most likely not turned over as it would have a cylinder full of fuel ( I have had this happen)
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper

bobz
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Post by bobz » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:27 am

thanks jtrichard, thanks good info to know, oh the guy at inj. shop said I should had tied the throttle back when taking it off. maybe he is thinking 350 model... I thought I seen a post on here I don't have to tie it back on the 1010's he was very nice took his time explaining fixing just the seal could just be temporary fix. he called it chasing the problem ! fuel will running to the next wore part. he was selling me over the phone. in other words since I have my wallet open and the moths were slowly coming out he was saying let them ALL OUT lol.. bobz :wink:

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Lavoy
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Post by Lavoy » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:14 am

From what I know, you have to tie the lever back or the governor can disconnect inside the pump.
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jtrichard
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Post by jtrichard » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:39 am

-If you can afford it it is BEST to get the pump rebuilt and get the updated governor ring so you don't end up later in life with "mouse turds" if you have not seen what that is yet search it :D :D
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper

bobz
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Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:31 am
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fuel in the oil 1010 loader

Post by bobz » Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:17 pm

yes jtrichard I looked up what mouse turds were, that's when that plastic bushing get brittle and runs thought your inj pump it can cause failure and trash the pump. I don't want that to happen I'm sending it out wed. to get it rebuilt. it had the issue when I bought it , so the moths will be coming out in droves lol...
:roll:

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jtrichard
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Post by jtrichard » Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:10 pm

Make sure you get the updated governor so you will never have "mouse turds"
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper

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