Cannot start 1010, looking for ideas

[Rick1010]

I have a '64 1010 diesel dozer in the following situation.

Dozer is sitting on about 20% incline with track off rear drive gear. It was running well until track fell off. I shut down immediately. When I restarted to put track back on, engine ran for about 5 seconds then stalled. I did not have time to engage anything. Don't know if it ran out of fuel but fuel was low. Assumed ran out of fuel...refueled and tried bleeding fuel system but could not get fuel out of lines at injectors.

Hired local diesel mechanic to look at it. After trying same thing as me, he thought something might have gone wrong with fuel pump, maybe that is why machine stalled in the first place. Brought pump to experienced fuel pump rebuilder (+15 years exp.) He says there was nothing wrong with pump except a couple of clogged ports.

Reinstalled pump with help of mechanic. Lined up TDC mark on flywheel, two marks in fuel pump timing window. Tried to bleed system again. Small amount of fuel can be seen coming out of cracked injector line on front-most cylinder. After an hour of trying to bleed, mechanic says that there must still be something wrong with fuel pump. In his opinion, fuel should be squirting 3-4 inches from cracked injector line, not slight dribble we are seeing. When turning engine, there is no fuel ignition at all.

At this point, I don't know if I should have pump looked at again by maybe another pump outfit or continue trying to bleed system.

Anybody have any ideas on how I can get out of this situation? Are there any fittings on pump that need to be bled before bleeding injector lines? Is the fact that the machine is on an incline causing problems?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Rick

PS. The machine ran good for 10 hours before the track came off.

[Lavoy]

First thing I would check is to make absolutely sure that there is no restriction or blockage in the feed line/s from the tank to the pump.
Lavoy

[BKahler]

Rick,

While not exactly the same situation, when I rebuilt my case backhoe and installed a freshly rebuilt injector pump it literally took 5 days for fuel to make it from the inlet of the pump and out the outlet ports while cranking the engine over. The first couple of days NOTHING came out of the outlet ports and then on the third day a dribble now and then. I finally just checked it each day after that and it finally fired off late on the fifth day. Injector pumps are weird critters.

Also I've heard that you should have a good "head" of fuel feeding the filters to allow for proper pressure going in.

Good luck!

Brad

[Rick1010]

Thanks for replying Lavoy.

I'll check the supply lines again. I assumed they were clear because when we put the pump back in, we had left the small cover off the timing window on the pump. There was lots of fuel coming out of that window just with gravity.

If I removed a banjo bolt from one of the ports, how much fuel would normally come out during cranking? In what ways can a pump fail? Is there something that I should be looking for? There were no broken parts, I think the guy rebuilding the pump would have noticed.

Best Regard
Rick

[Rick1010]

Thanks Brad.

Wow, 5 days of cranking! How long were the cranking sessions? This is my first dozer. I have no idea how long I can crank without frying the starter.

You mention having a good head of fuel? Anybody try pressurizing the tank? Would this force out the air from the lines or is this one of those dumb ideas where I'll be ashamed to tell my friends what I've done after causing irrepairable damage?

Rick

[BKahler]

It wasn't actually 5 days of cranking. I was on vacation during that time and I'd try every few hours. Didn't see any real change in the flow (meaning none or almost none) from the pump outlet ports until the 5th day. Even then I had to crank many many times to get it to finally fire.

Pressurizing the tank was also recommended to me by several people. By the time I had heard about that I was starting to get fuel from the pump so I just kept cranking from time to time.

From what I've been told you don't need much pressure, maybe 5 or 10 pounds max. If you can find a spare gas cap you might try drilling a small hole in it and then use one of those cheap portable pumps with a v-point adapter to try and put some pressure in the tank.

Certainly worth a try.

Brad

[Rick1010]

Real glad I found this site. Sounds like there may be hope yet.

Brad, when you let your backhoe sit while you were on vacation, did you leave the lines to the injectors cracked open? Do you think that would help?

Rick

[BKahler]

This is site is defintely a great resoure for jd crawler owners. Lavoy does a fine job of administering it.

I completely took the injector lines off of the pump and kept watching for any fluid at all coming out of the injector outlet ports. I was surprised at how long it took and so was the gentleman who rebuilt the pump. He did tell me it could be a bear to get them primed sometimes but mine was about as bad as he had heard of.

Once I got it started its started right up everytime since and its been close to a year now since its been running.

Keep us posted as to what you find out.

Brad

[lastchancegarage]

Rick,
If the pump has cavitated, pressurizing the fuel supply going in is the quickest was to clear the air pocket. If you had a cheap but clean plant sprayer that you could put a gallon of fuel in, you could connect a hose to your inlet and just pump it up to prime the injector pump. At least that would eliminate any blockages you might have elsewhere in the system. Just a thought. Good luck. And don't worry, there's plenty of "knucledraggers" here to help you find the gremlins.

Scott

[kirby]

Don't know if this will help or not but if I were doing it I would proceed as follows:
1) Replace both filters, I find it easier to pull the entire fuel filter assembly off the dozer and work with it on a bench then try and put them on while its on it. Them "O" rings that seal the filter cups are a booger to get to stay in place while they are still on the dozer. You would be surprised at the amount of water and trash that gets by the separator cup.

2) There should be a front shut off valve located on the front right under side of the fuel tank and a rear shut off valve located on the left rear behind the air intake elbow. Make sure both are open and fuel is coming through fuel lines free flowing with no restrictions.

3) Shut both fuel valves off and reconnect fuel line to filter manifold.

4) Go to the injection pump there are 2 lines going to the pump. One is the main fuel line coming from the filter assembly and the other is a return line that goes from the pump back to the bottom of the fuel tank. FYI The reason for the return line is because the pump can't use all the fuel that it is getting so it pumps the excess back into the tank. Better to have more fuel that is not needed than not enough.
This return line may have a shutoff valve on it next to the tank if it does open it up and blow air through it to make sure it isn't plugged, There CANNOT be any restriction it HAS to be free flowing back into tank.

4) Tighten all connections open all shutoff valves and fill fuel tank.

Now you should be ready to bleed system and make this badboy come to life. You first have to bleed the filter system. When you look at the top of the filter manifold you will see two 9/16" bolt heads. One will be pointing to the front of the machine the other will be on top of the filter body, these are the bleed bolts for the filters loosen these bolts one at a time until no more air comes out. Go to the injection pump and loosen the main fuel line flared nut to get the air out of it and tighten it back down.
Now loosen all four the main injector line nuts, this is the nut that screws directly into the injectors, 2 turns. Make sure your battery is charged up and crank engine until you see fuel coming out of all of the nuts. Tighten all nuts. Heat glow plugs for a minute and start engine. When engine starts loosen each injector nut 1 turn one at a time while running until all air is expeld.
The injection pumps used on 1010 are really a very basic down to earth pump. Not complicated at all.

If fuel is getting to pump the way it is suppose to and pump is pumping at all it shouldn't take more that a minute or so for fuel to get to the injectors........Hope this helps

[Howard Yoder]

My golf cart has been driving me crazy the last few days would run then quit and not start again for a while. finally after new fuel filter and some other things last night I took the carb off to make sure the needle valve wasn't sticking and the short rubber hose comming out of the carb I couldn't blow through it but could see light coming through it. There was a little piece of the hose that woud act like a flap when you blew on it it would close up and not let you blow through so got new line tonight but am waiting for it to cool down before I go out and mess with it. You might want to check your lines real good.

[Rick1010]

Just a quick followup to my dead 1010 saga. I tried bleeding the fuel system every few days over a month. There was incremental improvements to the fuel coming out of the injectors but it was slow going. Eventually the starter let go. This was actually a good thing. I had the starter rebuilt. The tech said everything had to be replaced, bushing, brushes, armature, etc.

With the starter reinstalled, the engine turned over much faster than before. It took two five minute sessions to properly bleed the system and get the engine started. I guess the bad starter couldn't turn the engine quick enough to build enough pressure.

Got the track back on. Now I'm need to find an upper idler assembly and I'm done.

Thanks for all the help!
Rick

[Jimmy in NC]

Rick-

It's funny how you find out your electricals aren't up to par. I had a very similar experience with my 420 after I put a new wiring harness on it, added gauges, etc and put it back as 6v Pos Ground.

Jimmy in NC