Tracks

Bret4207 · Post by **Bret4207** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:49 am

I've looked and searched here for 2 days but I'm still confused. Found a fair 5 roll 420 to replace/take over from my 3 roll 40. The guy also has a set of 350 rails that are allegedly 50%. After P&B renew or turn at least, would the 350 rails fit either the 420 or my 1010 c/l/bh? I'm unsure at this point just what will fit what as far as tracks and bull wheels, rollers, idlers, etc.

BTW- looking at that 420 I can a lot of difference between the 40 and 420. This 420 has a reverser too and appears to be a series 2...I think. Dipstick is still on the left side but it appears to have a water pump. Have I got the distinction right? Also, with the reverser, do you use the clutch to shift it? If I get the 420 I'll get the manuals but the guy was a little unclear on reverser op.

The old 40C under carriage is about toast. Sad, but true. Fix stuff for a week, run it an hour, spend another week fixing. Just can't do it anymore. The factory 3 pt I have on the 40 should make it worth something to someone though. Or maybe that will get switched to the 420...

Post by **Lavoy** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:51 am

350 rails will fit if you change to 350 sprocket rims.
All 420's had water pumps.
Yes, always use the foot clutch when shifting a reverser on a two cylinder crawler.
Bottom rollers from 4 roller 40 through 1010 are the same. 4 roller 40 though 430 are same idlers, but there are standard and oversize idlers, so be sure to measure.
Lavoy

Stan Disbrow · Post by **Stan Disbrow** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:40 pm

Hi,

To clarify what Lavoy said, the replacement 350 sprockets are in the form of only the outer ring of teeth. No center.

One has to cut the 420 teeth off in the form of a ring (and toss that) to make a 420 sprocket hub. Then, weld the new 350 ring of teeth to that.

Twice, of course.

Now you can use 350 rails.

Stan

Stan Disbrow · Post by **Stan Disbrow** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:43 pm

Hi,

Now there is a question. Will the 40c 3pt fit on a 420c? I usually think about the MC, 40c and 420c as different enough that I am not thinking about crossing parts. But the 3pt may well have crossed the model line.

Stan

JimAnderson · Post by **JimAnderson** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:13 pm

If the the 3 point is a a factory unit then it was taken from a 420 or later machine.The early 40c transmission housing has the same seat bolt pattern and dowel hole on the top as the later units.I am surprised that you don't see more more 40c machines with a three point retrofit but
maybe it is just the scarcity of the hitches themselves.
JimAnderson

Bret4207 · Post by **Bret4207** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:14 pm

Thanks guys. Gotta do some more adding and subtracting, but at least I have the info I need. I'm gonna get the rails at least. For $100.00 I can't hardly lose!

gus · Post by **gus** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:52 am

Bret,
Very good price but are the pads included or just rails? 4 bolts on a 350 vs 2 bolts on the 420.

shinnery · Post by **shinnery** » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:17 am

I know someone had a spreadsheet on what fit what, but for clarity what is the difference between 350 and 420/440 tracks? Is it the length of the link, the diameter of the bushing, or the width of the sprocket teeth (and thereby the length of the bushing)? Or is it all of the above? I know the two 440ICDs I have have 4 bolt pads and the 440IC has 2 bolt pads but I think the sprockets are virtually the same.
Bryce

Post by **Lavoy** » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:12 am

It is the bushing diameter that screws things up. The pitch is the same from MC through 2010/350.
1010 and early 2010 rails are the same bushings size as 420-440, so it is possible to have later 4 bolt rails on an earlier crawler without sprocket modification. I have 1010 rails on my 440 with 4 bolt pads.
Lavoy

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:51 pm

Late 2010 above #42000 and all 350 have the bigger pins and bushings... Early 2010 ,ALL 1010 ,440 ECT. have the smaller P+B

Bret4207 · Post by **Bret4207** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:17 pm

gus wrote:Bret,
Very good price but are the pads included or just rails? 4 bolts on a 350 vs 2 bolts on the 420.

Pads included. I looked at them today. They are showing wear up into the bottom of the pin boss from the rollers I imagine. Seems I read some where there are limits on that kind of wear and it's an indication that the rails are iffy as far as P+B turning? My memory isn't so hot these days so I could be wrong.

ETA- 4 bolt

Bret4207 · Post by **Bret4207** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:22 pm

I got down today and took the 5 roll 420 for a test run. I know it's been a couple weeks, but I wasn't sure the $$$ were going to be there. Ran the machine around and it's lots tighter and better running than my 40C. Much more substantial feel with the long tracks too. It's not much to look at since he's had the sheet metal off for a long time, but it seemed to move just fine and the reverser works good too. So we cut a deal and I'm bringing it home later this week- barring unforeseen issues.

I really like the blade on this one as opposed to the 40C. Lifts much, much higher. I can see that as a big advantage in the woods.

BTW- this is a 5 speed with bent right steering lever. What color scheme should this one have had from the factory? My limited research says it should have been the first run to come with the yellow stripe. Right or wrong?

Is there a difference in operators or shop manuals between serial numbers on these?

Stan Disbrow · Post by **Stan Disbrow** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:57 pm

Hi,

The differential style reverser was not in my 420 service manual. I had to get the 430 one to cover that, and a few other things on the Phase III 420. Additionally, anything on the M and 40 which carried over onto the 420 wasn't in the 420 manual, either. So, I need all four to cover mine.

My parts manual is from 1962, so everything (and then some) is in that.

Oh, and the 62 blade has its' own manual. Which I find useful mainly for the parts section.

Both the Phase II and III 420s had yellow stripes. The Phase I was all green. IIRC, of course.

Stan

Bret4207 · Post by **Bret4207** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:20 am

Thanks Stan!

DukeofDeere · Post by **DukeofDeere** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:22 pm

We are in the process of making pins and bushings.
Will be quite affordable.

Duke

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