420 solid state ignition?

[Willyr]

Does anyone make such a thing?

[Lavoy]

Yes, got one in a crawler right now, will sell it to you if you want it, they suck.
Lavoy

[CELSESSER]

Lavoy,
I don't know why you don't just say what you really think!!!

Chuck

[Lavoy]

There is nothing wrong with the concept, nor the manufacturer. The problem is with the 6 volt systems. The 6 volt systems require 4.6 volts to fire. When cranking over the engine, the voltage frequently drops below this, and the ignition system will not fire. You can crank til hell freezes over, and no spark. BUT, the second you let go of the starter knob, it fires. Try this in my country at 10 above zero, and you know where at least some of my hair went.
The other problem if you want to call it that, is they will NOT tolerate ANY application of 12 volts to the system, or you hear a real nasty sizzling sound, don't ask me how I know this.
I did install a 12 volt system in a customers 420 that I shipped to Hawaii for a working crawler. They wanted trouble free starts and no points problems. This crawler would work up to 12 hours a day sometimes, and in two years, no hiccups of any sort.
If you want to try a 6 volt system, go ahead, but you will need to have every single piece of the entire electrical system absolutely up to snuff, plus a good battery and cables.
Lavoy

[Willyr]

I am intrigued, yet I will wait till I see my orders start to show up before I order more.

[Willyr]

Just a dumb thought? why not a lithium battery hidden in the regulator cavity that will supply switched power to the coil at time of cranking? Or even a capacitor?

I do remember that some 12 volt starters had a similar problem, hence the extra lug on the solenoid, granted our tractors dont use electric solenoids.

[Lavoy]

Yes, we had been talking about putting a second battery somewhere else just to run the ignition. The battery on this crawler is not in the regular place, so we are going to try a larger battery and see if a couple hundred extra amps will overcome the voltage drop.
Lavoy

[cowboy4996]

I like the one I put in my MC...but Lavoy is correct...it takes all the juice to crank it...then it starts when I let go of the knob. I've got new cables and an Optima battery...and I'm not trying to start it in sub zero weather.

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

A secondary battery would be better than a capacitor because a battery produces power whereas a cap only stores it.

If you use a secondary ignition battery, there are 6v motorcycle ones that would work well and be easy enough to mount. Or, there are 6v gel-cells that would work equally well.

I'd put a silicon diode between the main 6v battery and the secondary one. That would allow charging voltage to pass into the ignition battery when the machine is running, but prevent any flow of current from the secondary into the primary when cranking.

You could use a diode and a large capacitor, but even a half of a Farad (one of those computer power supply jobs that looks like a large bean can) will drop voltage down while cranking.

So, I think you'd have about four seconds worth of strong ignition before the load (from the ignition) drained the cap down to what the battery is at from it's load (from the starter).

Of course, that's four seconds more than you have with the stock set-up!

later!

Stan

[Willyr]

Hey Lavoy? What do you want on that ignition?

My feeling is to go the second battery route, perhaps a lithium battery with a solenoid that trips during cranking of the starter. IE the output of the starter will trigger the solenoid to send the juice to the ignition, then when you release the starter you are no longer supplying juice to the coil. Crude but effective.

[Lavoy]

It is going to stay on the crawler. We are going to try a 975 amp battery and see if the additional amps are sufficient to overcome the voltage drop. This crawler will never run in winter or cold temps, so cold weather starting does not come into play on this machine.
If you want a system, they are readily available, seems to me around $150.
Lavoy

[Lavoy]

Okay, after nearly an hour of swearing, spitting, screaming and such with no luck whatsoever getting this POS to start, guess what I found? A little history first, 975CCA battery, put on new cables, rebuilt starter, cleaned the connections, new starter switch, 500 amp booster charger, and still won't hardly turn over. This crawler has a Heller trencher attachment, so the controls are no longer in the dash, they are above the LH fender on the trencher main frame. As I was cussing and cranking over the engine, my arm was laying on the hyd hose coming from the hyd pump to the hyd valve. All of a sudden it dawns on me that the hose is getting warm. Now needless to say, I had not cranked the POS long enough to develop any heat. All the heat being generated was coming from my ears!!!! Turns out the ground would not travel through the trencher frame to the crawler, and it was trying to use the hyd system for the ground. SOOO, I ran a ground cable directly to the center section, and now it spins over like a champ. Voltage stays up enough that it fires right off. I would have never believed it if I hadn't seen it, and still not sure I believe it, but it was. Thank god I didn't arc something in the pump, or cam shaft, or whatever and have an even bigger mess.
Lavoy

[Willyr]

LOL. When I rewire this crawler of mine, the ground will be moved to the starter.

[JD440ICD2006]

Lavoy,

I think you may invented the first "hydraulic resistor" on an antique crawler.

Chuck W.

[Lavoy]

Suppose there is any money it that?
Lavoy