Need a Dozer

[Cardinal]

My town is "giving" me free ten wheeler loads of ditching dirt. The one driver that asks me where I want it dumped went on vacation last week and the two drivers that filled in for him just dumped it on the flat and NOT over the bank! I have 24+ plus loads of dirt that I now have to somehow move over the bank!

Which is why I'm posting this here. I've looked at a lot of other brands and have come to the conclusion that John Deere is the ONLY brand that supports ALL of their equipment from new to OLD.

Here's what I'm looking for:

1) A small dozer in the 4000# to 6000# range (light enough that I can haul it on my dual axle car hauler trailer which has electric brakes). IF it's heavier than 6000# but lighter than 10,000# I can work aound it by borrowing a good friend of mine who has a HD trailer. I would prefer not to travel more than 500 miles from Endicott, NY 13760 to get it but if the price is right, I'll travel a little more.

2) The dozer must run, have good drive clutches, and the tracks need to be in good shape. I don't have time to monkey around with a "fixerupper".

3) A real plus would be if it had a six way blade and a REAL plus is if it was a hydraulic six way blade. This is NOT a deal killer though as I can live with a non-six way blade if the price is right.

I am on a TIGHT budget. I have about $2500 and if the dozer is in great shape I have a couple of friend that would buy into to be partners with me should the dozer cost more but be a good buy for all of us.

Email me as I read my email EVERY day as I have sisters who are not well and that's how I keep in touch with them.

[Lavoy]

Not to burst your bubble, but on the whole, the only things out of your list you will likely get for $2500 is going to be crawler and dozer. By and large any dozer in that price range will need anywhere from some to a lot of work.
Same with a 6 way blade, I know of 6 way blades sitting on a pallet that have sold for $2500 with no crawler attached.
For what you are looking to do, I would suggest hiring it done if this is the only work you need done.
Lavoy

[Cardinal]

Lavoy:

I understand and agree (to a point) that hiring a contractor is a better choice.

But here's the rub: I can't get one to show up any time soon as they are all busy because the weather has been warm and clear = they're making hay (dirt?) while the sun shines. I have two 100' long 4" corrugated drain pipes (one for cellar drain, one for gutter drain) that have to be covered up before winter or they'll be destroyed by freezing the water that will be inside them.

AND almost every contractor didn't do exactly what I wanted done. The last one didn't bring his dozer because the final drive was broken so he brought is small excavator. I wanted a swale down the back property line but instead he dug a 12" wide ditch which is almost filled back in because our hardpan soil caves in. The contractor before him did a great job but he didn't cut a drainage swale or ditch so all the spring thaw + rain backed up a lot more that it should have.

AND once I get this mess of dirt put where I want it, I'll be getting more! Plus I can cut the swale down the back property line where and how I want it.

[Lavoy]

If you have further work to do, it is not a bad idea, the problem is your price, I have seen people pay that for parts crawlers. You are just not likely to get any sort of older crawler that does not need from a little to a lot of work for your price range, as a general rule, they are just not out there. At double your price, you will likely get a good crawler, but I still guarantee that it will need some work sooner or later. If you don't have time to work on it yourself, then you add the additional cost of paying someone else to do it for you.
It is not that you won't find one, I just highly doubt it at that price, and with your criteria. The other thing that I have told people for years is you will eventually get to a certain number as far as dollars on these old crawlers, the question is whether you pay most of it up front, or pay for it over time due to repairs and hassles and breakdowns.
Lavoy

[KenP]

deleted

[Cardinal]

Most sellers anymore are still horse traders. A hundred years ago, they'd be selling a blind lame horse as a perfect work horse! LOL! Same goes for vehicles, machinery, etc.

I've been looking for a dozer for over three years. I've traveled hundreds of miles to look at machines that were listed as "ready to work" that hadn't moved in YEARS (no tracks in the ground, DEAD fuel, no antifreeze in cooling system, hydrauic system EMPTY, tracks at full adjustment, blade worn through!, and chain WORN OUT).

So far, I haven't found one machine of any brand that I'd consider "ready to work". I not being fussy but I am being cautious.

I appreciate all of your input and take evey word of advice to heart.

As for other brands, IH got merged into so many other companies that somewhere along the line their pre-1970's (small) equipment got dropped. I looked at a IH T350 (simialr to a IH 500) which had definate possibilies EXCEPT that the (track) parts for them are NLA which was a real deal killer.

[oldtanker]

Most sellers anymore are still horse traders. A hundred years ago, they'd be selling a blind lame horse as a perfect work horse! LOL! Same goes for vehicles, machinery, etc.

I've been looking for a dozer for over three years. I've traveled hundreds of miles to look at machines that were listed as "ready to work" that hadn't moved in YEARS (no tracks in the ground, DEAD fuel, no antifreeze in cooling system, hydrauic system EMPTY, tracks at full adjustment, blade worn through!, and chain WORN OUT).

So far, I haven't found one machine of any brand that I'd consider "ready to work". I not being fussy but I am being cautious.

I appreciate all of your input and take evey word of advice to heart.

As for other brands, IH got merged into so many other companies that somewhere along the line their pre-1970's (small) equipment got dropped. I looked at a IH T350 (simialr to a IH 500) which had definate possibilies EXCEPT that the (track) parts for them are NLA which was a real deal killer.

I've kinda been looking for one too. Parts are expensive and for the 2500 you list you will more than likely not find much. 2500 will not buy a decent skid steer. I picked up a tractor loader backhoe thats pretty much OK for 4500 last fall after looking at a JD 350 crawler loader for 2500. I know the 350 and the owner. It's well taken care of but the sprockets, chains and pads are toast. I'd really rather have a crawler but that darn TLB has been a very handy machine here on the farm. Not knocking JD but Cat has pretty good parts support too so don't rule out something like a D2 or old D4.

Rick

[Cardinal]

I hear you. $2500 is the amount of cash I have. I have two friends who will kick in as partners and I'm going to have to sell some of my toys (guns and RC airplanes) to build the cash reserve up a little more.

I've been a mechanic all my life and we have a younger son who is cursed with the "mechanic gene". Between the both of us we can fix almost anything. BUT I don't want to buy a basket case and spend time and money that I don't have either.

I have seen both sides of deals lately. Neighbor picked up a newer JD for $5000 that should have been a $10,000 machine but the previous owner was going through a divorce so he needed cash flow. I also saw another bulldozer that went CHEAP because the wife was told by her husband to sell it so that he and his girlfriend could go on vacation. Hell have no fury like a woman scorned!

[JD440ICD2006]

I will reinforce what the others have said. Short of a total fluke like you described (which are few and far between), you cannot buy anything for $2,500.
The JD model that fits your weight range is the 440. They made a gas and a diesel, the diesel being the GM 2-53 engine. When in good working order, they will put out a lot of work and come in under 9,000 LBS, depending on blade and options.
The problem is that they are hard to locate in good working order. You need more than double your money, AND you need to know what to look for.
Never buy a crawler that you have not worked hard for 20 or 30 minutes. There are no "simple adjustments" on them that affect things like steering, etc.
Good luck with your search!

[JWB Contracting]

Yes, there can be cheap good deals out there but they are few and far between. I watch KIJIJ like a hawk and it is not very often that I miss out on something that I would buy. Last good buy was last fall, paid $2,700 for a 350B with an outside mount dozer, canopy and winch, but had a small engine fire (starter, filters, water pump only).

I have also been buying sideboom cats and removing the booms and selling them as dozer machines. 450C sidebooms have been selling for much less than comparable dozer machines at Ritchies. I have one deconversion for sale right now and 3 more in stock.

If I were you, i would work on getting your budget increased and look for a reasonably priced 450C with a six way dozer. It is a little heavier than you are looking for but a much more capable machine. I see them for anywhere between 7,500 and 12,500 on ebay. If you get a good one and don't destroy it you most likely could get your money back out of it when you are done your work. Problem is once you get one, you will most likely have a hard time parting with it.

[Tigerhaze]

IF the reason for getting a dozer is only the fill dirt project you describe, you would be much better off renting a crawler dozer (or my recommendation would be a crawler loader).

A few years ago I rented a CAT 939HST crawler loader from the CAT STORE for one week at a cost just under $2000- with fuel it probably was somewhere around $2500. It was basically a brand new machine and was much more machine than I could have bought for the same price. The CAT STORE (at least at the time) would rent to anyone without requiring the $1M liability that other rental places like . the cost I mentioned included a 10% surchage for a rental insurance policy which I would highly recommend because even minor damage could easily exceed that amount.

If you will have ongoing projects, then purchasing may be the best way. However as others mentioned the purchase price is just the start of the costs and you will likely have some repair costs along the way with an older machine. I figure that I will probably break even at the end over renting- I would probably get my projects done quicker with a newer rental machine but I like the idea of having crawlers available whenever I need them without the hassle of arranging a rental.

[Cardinal]

This is definately an "ongoing" project. Randomly I get heaping ten wheeler loads of ditching dirt. One time I might get one or two. Another time I might get 24! Today I got about 12!

I'm filling a 1/4 acre+ 12' deep so this is a long term project. A heaping full ten wheeler of dirt gains about 2' or less when you're filling a 12' deep hole.

AND I want to cut a swale along the 300'+ back property line PLUS another 200'+ long swale that would connect to that swale along the north side of my property.

I don't need a big dozer as I'm retired = have all the time in the world to move dirt.

I'm looking at a JD 440 that runs, has 75% tracks, 6 way hydrauilc blade, and has a gas engine. We haven't talked price but I think it's going to be reasonable.

[440 iron popper]

At double your price, you will likely get a good crawler, but I still guarantee that it will need some work sooner or later.
Lavoy

I'll add a gold with diamonds all over warranty on that! Especially if it steers not good for now on right side because it has sit for a while but after a bit of work the clutch pack will come back in buiseness... Even if the inspection is satisfactory when buying it, the inside cannot be checked... (50+ more years of history in there!) If you go with a 440 here are my advices:

1. Buy it
2. Drive it carefully in a garage for tear down
3. Fix it right
4. Enjoy this cool dozer.

Or do like me:

1. Buy it
2. Break it
3. Buy another one, ''better'' than the first (thinking selling the first)
4. Break the 2nd
5. Fix the first (one year without using it until now)
6. Tear down the 2nd from finals to the clutch case
7. Miscallenous
8. Miscallenous
9. Miscallenous
10. Enjoy this cool dozer (to come)

These are Really fun to use. For doing some work with these pieces of history you have to like mechanic fixing. At the end of this adventure I'm pretty shure I could have bought an old Cat D3 instead... 440's have antique style and sound, you can easily move them (+- 8000 lbs), surprising amount of power for a dozer this big!

Over here people keep them... or they bring them to the limit and sell them. Good enough for test run and shipping. Maybe you'll be more lucky in your area.

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

I wish you luck in your search.

I have to agree with Lavoy and the others here that you really need to start with $5k in your pocket ($7500 would be better) to pick up a 420/430/440/1010 in decent enough shape to become your ongoing project machine. I'd be looking for a 1010 or a 440 over a 420 or a 430 myself.

I'd also say you need $10k for a 350 and on the order of $15k for a 450 that fits the same criteria.

You really do not want to pick up a 'bargain' that winds up needing an entire rebuild from the blade to the drawbar. You can either spend the money up front or later on - and add a lot of work effort on your part with the 'later on' option - there is no other way. See my sig line!

As an example, a buddy of mine bought a 'bargain' skid steer a few years back that had a 'bad injector' that turned out to be a lunched rod bearing. He spent darned near double what he would have spent on a decent one in the first place, and learned a lot about the differences between rebuilding old cars (which he was well schooled in) and old machinery!

For details see:

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... php?t=2908

A few years back, I was looking for a 350 to replace my 420 as the ongoing project machine. The 420 would become the 'show' machine, except I'd leave her in her 'work clothes'. I worry about still using it for ongoing projects given the scarcity (and costliness) of parts these days. Everything works on it just fine, but I say if I sold it today I'd not take much below $8k for it. So, no one would buy it at that price, of course, but still $5k would be a real bargain for the buyer if I decided to let it go for that.

Anyway, I had $10k for a 350 there at one point, before the economy shifted and changed my priorities for my money. I could not find one for less than $15k that was truly decent. 450's were on the order of $20k. I still use the 420 as a result and just hope something important does not go -snap- from age.

During my JD350 search, I did pop across a JD300 tractor/loader/backhoe that my next door neighbor wound up buying. It needed the drive to the hydraulic pump rebuilt and all new rubber hoses, but it was in excellent shape besides those things. So, there are deals to be found out there, it just takes a lot of looking. I spent several months going around with him on the search for such a machine, but we got there in the end.

Later!

Stan

[JD440ICD2006]

Not to beat a dead horse (nor a possible horse trader selling you a crawler) but where did the "75%" number come from? If you did the measurements based on the scale that is avaialble on this site, that is good. If the seller or someone LOOKED at it and said it LOOKED like "about 75%", that is basically useless information regarding an undercarriage.
The percent worn is just one of many factors that need to be found out. It can have newer parts in places to make it look better, but that only means that it will wear those and the others faster.
A good example, my pickup "LOOKS" like it only has maybe 60,000 miles on it. It actualy has over double that. Would you buy a pickup based how many miles it "looked" like it had on it?
Keep us posted, we are just attempting to help you.