410C bachoe problem

[vestor_guy]

I have metal flakes in the transmission oil that covered the transmission pump input screen. The screen was covered with small flakes that are very thin like they have passed between gears and flattened. I suspeded the rivets (known problem with other machines) fastening the ring gear to the spider housing but they are all intact.

I went through the cab floor and opened the top of the transmission. There is no evidence of any damage to the gears and the ring gear is fastened tightly. The rear wheels will rotate through the spider housing and the other wheel rotates in the opposite direction. Attempting to hold one wheel and rotate the ring gear and transmission is impossible. The transmission is out of gear so it should rotate fairly easy.

I have not used the diff lock in recent years and it was stuck partially down but not locked. I used a piece of wood to drive the lever back up.

What could be keeping the gears from rotating? The metal flakes are not from bearing material or they would not have flattened and would have damaged the gears. It is soft metal of some sort.

[digitup2]

take a good close look at the gear pump it is probably shot .Digitup.

[vestor_guy]

Thanks for the help. I finally got the nerve to start it up with the transmission top off to see what is going on. I have a lot of hearing loss but a friend said there was noise coming from the r/h final drive and planetary.

I have dropped the right side of the transmission and removed all the bolts from the axle housing. It should be free to come loose but it will not budge. There are some dowel pins keeping it aligned and from rotating. I cannot get anything started between the axle housing and transaxle to get it apart. Any idea how to get it off? Maybe some sort of puller? I called deere service and they said to just tap on it with a hammer and it would begin to come loose. I got fairly agressive with a hammer and got nowhere. I don't want to break anything more than is already broken.

With that amount of metal, I have something serious going on in there and it sounds expensive.

[gus]

Sure you got all the bolts? There's a couple "hidden" under, backside.

[vestor_guy]

The parts book shows 12 bolts and I have gotten all twelve removed. It is just stuck really well with the sealer. I think I will make a puller using 4 of the holes to put pressure between the transmission housing and and the slots in the axle housing where it bolts to the frame.

I have an EZ trak CNC mill so it will give me a programming exercise.

After looking at the parts book really well, I don't think there is a problem with the planetary gears or bearings. That would be hard material and would be gritty. I have flattened flakes of metal. I am suspecting the brake on that side.

By the way. This is a 4 wheel drive backhoe and the hydraulic filter is right above the transfer case. I cannot get a wrench on the filter and it is also stuck. A new aluminum case for the filter is $400 and I don't want to break it. Has anyone made any offset wrench to get that filter off? Any ideas? Thanks. Of course the manual shows a tractor without 4wd and it is clearly open from the bottom.

[andregrondin]

Hi !

Can you get a srew driver true the side of the filter or at least a kind of metal bar so after that you can twist off the filter , I know it sound weird but
I did remove many filter like that ( anyway you need to replace it ) .

[vestor_guy]

I have been working on this project off and on for about 10 months. I fished out lots of metal pieces even up to the size of 3/8 by 1/2 and around .007 thick. It looked like pieces of a thrust washer. With some extra help, I finally got the transmission dropped out. I pulled it out from under the tractor but have no idea how I am going to get it back under the tractor. I'm on dirt.

Anyway, after lots of hard work pulling the final drives, differential etc, I had still not found the source of the metal. I had about decided that I was not going to find the problem and decided to pull the transfer case off and clean any metal out of it. I spotted a problem. A bearing race had backed out of the housing some. I pulled the quill and found a BIG problem. The main drive gear was wobbling on the main clutch pack shaft.

Now, the bigger problem. The shaft is no longer available from Deere for a 1993 machine. I can buy the gear but the shaft is going to have to be found used or possibly repaired.

A question. I have a 14" lathe and do some machine work. I have never attempted to build up a bearing surface before. What rod would I use that could be turned down to specs on my lathe? Has anyone done this before that could give me some advice. There is a bushing in the gear that rides on the shaft. The bushing is totally gone as was the thrust washer that holds the gear in place on the shaft. The rest of the transfer case looks ok.

This gear combination obviously takes lot of pressure during four wheel drive operation especially if the tires are not the original size. I did put new original back tires on the tractor with out replacing the front tires right after I got the tractor back in 1998. I am wondering how much of a problem that could have caused. I generally only use the FWD when I scoop the bucket full and shift out as I back out. I thought I was being pretty careful but I guess not.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. The shaft is an AT3994 and is used in 410C and D models.

[Lavoy]

Not a backhoe guy, but have some thoughts.
If the tires are not sized proportionally to what they were new, you are creating driveline windup, just like putting different size tires on the the front and back of a 4WD pickup. Whatever size tires you put on back, you need to put the corresponding size relative to them on the front. If you put stock tires on the back, put stock tires on the front. I can't imagine how much force is being put on the driveline with non "matching" tires on front and back, and yes I understand they would never be the same size.
I have been told many times by machinists I trust that striing an arc on a shaft is a bad idea, more so on a shaft like you are talking about. I would find someone that can metalspray the shaft up for you. It sounds like too much work, and too much money to gamble on it failing.
That being said, e-mail me the part number, I may have a source.
Lavoy

[Willyr]

On your shaft. Find some one that does metal plating. it is very easy to have them build up a shaft. Heck they could chrome the surface for you (for a good bearing surface).

Otherwise you need to talk to a tractor salvage yard. Lots of them around. Lavoy may be able to point out some.

[vestor_guy]

The shaft with the problem was the middle shaft in the transfer case. If has another gear that should spin freely on that shaft via a bushing. I was able to purchase the rotating gear but not the shaft (no longer available). I took the shaft to Flame spray to have it repaired. I had not measured how much metal was missing but when we examined it, it mostly had metal "transfer" from the rotating gear after the bushing was totally gone. He suggested that I just clean it up. I also showed him the rotating gear that clearly had most of the pressed in bushing gone and areas where metal was missing. He said it would have only cost about $175 to repair that gear with metal spray but I had alread bought a new one from JD for $643. Lesson learned. I put the shaft on my lathe and carefully took off the excess metal, pressed a new bushing in the rotating gear and it fits great. Now, I just have to put it all back together.

One question though. Why would that bushing wear out? It is free to rotate on the shaft when the fwd is not engaged. When the fwd is engaged, clutch plates apply pressure to the rotating gear hydraulically locks it to the rotating shaft. There might be some slight movement of the rotating gear and the shaft if the tires are not the exact size but mine are stock size. It would also rotate if the stabilizers are down with the rear wheels off the ground and the transmission in gear.

I just don't see why there was a massive failure of that bushing when it should seldom even rotate on the shaft.