What Happens When Us Old Farts Die?

Discuss non-crawler related issues here (keep it sane, please)
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amos
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What Happens When Us Old Farts Die?

Post by amos » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:03 am

More work on the fork truck yesterday (steer axel this time)and needed some bearings and seals. Had to cut one race to get it out,1 bearing was disintegrated, one bearing somewhat intact and numbers visible,and no info printed on seals.
Took the pieces and parts to a bearing and seal supply house here in town and counterman (60's) got out his BOOKS and a caliper,did some measuring,made some notes,and in a couple of minutes had all I needed on the counter: and it fit as it was supposed to.
Not the first time they've helped me out with bearings and seals: sometimes got lucky and numbers visible but most time it was measuring down to thousandths and cross-matching in a parts book(s).
Up and comers first can't use or read a caliper (at my factory we have 3 indications of a dial caliper face and scale on a pre-employment test that applicants are asked to read: 100% failure rate with 200+ applicants over past years. Half can't read a tape measure either).And using a cross reference book is about 5 feet over their head.
Either we go more toward a throw away society or techs with skills will be as valuable as a good doctor.
But: parents and kids of last generation or two see any job where you get your hands dirty as "beneath them". I know plumbers making 100 grand a year and GOOD parts guys making 60K a year.
They don't teach wood shop,mechanics,or farm tech in school anymore but do teach human interaction and diversity. Sad to see as someone needs to be able to fix things.
I'll get off my soapbox now...
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: What Happens When Us Old Farts Die?

Post by Stan Disbrow » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:52 am

Hi,

When I was still working in the corporate world, a caliper was a must-have. Problem was, I would have a digital caliper for maybe six months before it evaporated. Then, I would have to spend a few days caliper-less waiting on a new one. After the fourth one turned to vapor, which had to be the answer since no one ever fessed up to 'borrowing' it, I solved the problem permanently:

I brought in the old vernier caliper dad gave me when I was growing up!

That fixed the problem because no one else could read the fool thing! ;)

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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amos
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Re: What Happens When Us Old Farts Die?

Post by amos » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:29 am

Hi Stan,
Ask any kid how to convert fractions of an inch to decimal using a calculator without looking it up on that phone/computer thing in their hand(seems to be permanently affixed there). Down right comical.
I've spent hours teaching employees how to measure accurately down to thousandths of an inch: few can grasp even the concept.
Gets worse: we require applicants to complete the application on site. When told of that requirement half (that would be 1/2 or 50% and not .500%: can't grasp that either) simply turn around and walk out the door.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: What Happens When Us Old Farts Die?

Post by Stan Disbrow » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:52 pm

Hi,

Percent? You mean fractions of a penny like on gas pumps, right?

Um. Yeah. That's it! :P

In my line of work, I need to stand rectangularly in both the electrical engineering and mechanical engineering camps. It helps to also be a software engineer, either to find SW bugs or fix a HW fault with some SW. Oh, and a smattering of chemical engineering helps, too.

I have had to take tests once in a while as well. Half the time, I get the correct answer only to be told it is incorrect....because the maker of the test doesn't have it right! I recall one particularly good one where it was a question of logic operation. The guy had drawn in an exclusive OR, meaning it will fire if either input is active but won't if neither is active *or* both inputs are active.

He used the wrong schematic symbol by mistake. He meant to use a bog-standard OR where it would go active if both inputs are active. As it happened, the rest of the circuit would present the XOR with both inputs off or both inputs on but never only one input. So, the thing would *never* turn on.

I thought he was trying to have a trick question. Who'd make a circuit that would never do anything? But, I gave the correct answer. He thought he had me. but, he didn't. When I pointed the XOR out, he just sat there. Then, got to laughing. Said he now knew why *no one* had ever gotten that one correct.

I got the job on the spot. That job being failure analysis, so one has to be sharp to pick off the errors made by others. :)

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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scampr
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Re: What Happens When Us Old Farts Die?

Post by scampr » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:14 pm

Sad to say but i think thats the tip of the ice burg .If the issue cant be solved with a smart phone your not going to get help. Just watch a person try to count change if the register doesnt tell them how much to give back . Sad....
scampr 440icd, 450c, 47 farmall H, 55 farmall cub and ashamed to have a kabota too

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: What Happens When Us Old Farts Die?

Post by Stan Disbrow » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:59 pm

Hi,

No one is taught to count the change forward. I ran into that just yesterday. Stopped at Burger Joint for lunch. Total was $7.69 and I forked over a 20. Register didn't have enough small bills to work that out. So, I counted my singles and had eight. Simple. Just take back the 20 and hand over 8. Not simple, though. The register had totalled out and was displaying the change amount. Girl can't make out how to get from $7.69 to $8.00....just count it forward....

So, I had to coach her thru it. Grab a penny. $7.70...grab a nickle. $7.75....grab a quarter. $8.00...and there we are. By then, the manager had come over with a big grin because....you guessed it...an old fart! :P

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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CuttingEdge
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Re: What Happens When Us Old Farts Die?

Post by CuttingEdge » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:17 am

You and I are friends Stan, but had you done that in front of me I would have cuffed you beside the head. I say that because I did that very thing once.

A guy just berated a young high school woman at McDonald's for not counting forward the change right and made a mistake. She was in tears and he did not stop. I finally had enough because one thing I will NOT stand for is someone thinking they are better than someone else. I don't care if she works at McDonald's or at the White House, people are not to be berated; people make mistakes.

So I back handed him up beside the head and he just turned around and looked at me. We locked eyes, and while I am not big, nor have ever been in a fight in my life, I do not back down either. He could sense that and walked out, tail between his leg. Funny how bullies are so sheepish when they are stood up too.

The reality is, you cannot expect a generation not brought up to do something, to do something they have never done. That is like expecting a person who just bought a bulldozer and has never worked with them to know every part instantly.

Sadly their is a thing called brain-drain today; the term given to older people with knowledge who are retiring out, using old skills and means to get the job done. With the baby-boomers retiring out, the issue is acute. I feel fortunate to have been "born retired" as my ex-wife called it, as I always hung out with people 20 years my senior. Those guys are now in their 80's, but when I was 20 and impressionable, their thoughts kept me living a clean life. A lot of mistakes granted, as I did mention I have been divorced a few times, but overall away from expensive vices.

As for blue collar jobs; it is indeed true. I was a welder and as PondHogVT and I chatted about, I could get a job as a welder tomorrow because of that skills, and 2 years ago when I welded at the shipyard, $100,000 a year was possible if I wanted to really work. I welded up the missile silos so I was making over $1 a minute depending on the job. Interestingly enough, a few of the teachers I had in school are still working, and at age 42, I retired. Sometimes I think about going back to work just because I know it seems a waste to have skills that would be of use to society and our country, but it would be hard to be hired anywhere with cancer now.
I have no intention of traveling to my grave in a well manicured body; instead I am going to slide into heaven with a big power turn, totally wore out with busted knuckles, jump off my dozer loudly yelling, Woo Hoo, another Shepard has just arrived!

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: What Happens When Us Old Farts Die?

Post by Stan Disbrow » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:38 am

Hi,

Well, she needed the help so I simply offered to teach her how to do it. That isn't bullying, just helping. There was no berating.

As far as folks being better or worse than others, that is simply a fact of life. There are always people better than you, and there are always people worse than you - for every subject. Personally, what I can't stand is when people refuse to learn anything new.

Stan
Last edited by Stan Disbrow on Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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amos
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Re: What Happens When Us Old Farts Die?

Post by amos » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:41 am

Good thing is I get the old man discount without even asking for it now.Few years ago I was checking into a hotel and asked if they gave a military or veteran's discount. Young lady said yes and asked for a military I.D. I'm a veteran I say and she asked how she could verify that. I said,"Honey I spent 8 years in the blue water Navy with most of that in the Pacific Fleet and can cuss like a real sailor. Shall I demonstrate?" Laughing she said that wouldn't be necessary and gave me the discount.
In Texas a veteran can get "VETERAN" printed on their driver's license and since I did that it's easier to get the discount :D
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

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amos
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Re: What Happens When Us Old Farts Die?

Post by amos » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:04 am

Morning Stan,
I was at a store the other day and the clerks glasses we so smudged I couldn't see how she could see. "You really need to clean your glasses so you don't strain your eyes" I say and she starts trying to clean them with her synthetic material shirt. I hand her my clean bandana and the is rubbing one side of the lens. Hand me your glasses please I say and show her how to clean glasses.
Wasn't being a bully,belittling her,or besmirching her: just teaching her the better way to clean her glasses without damaging them.Something i do without thought.
In today's hyper-sensitive PC world anything can be reinterpreted as something bad even when it isn't.
The other day I was at a grocery store in a bad area and a nice 50ish black lady was being approached in the parking lot by an aggressive white trash panhandler.She looked toward me and her eyes asked for help so I got between the panhandler and her and told him to move on. Helped her load her groceries and never gave it another thought.
My appearance gives most people a reason to avoid me: Bib overalls,red-wing work boots,bandana hanging out of my pocket and some type of well worn ball cap on my head. Look less than approachable as well. But I'm a small kid and animal magnet as critters and kids somehow know I'm a good man.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

dtoots1
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Re: What Happens When Us Old Farts Die?

Post by dtoots1 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:44 am

well folks just wanted to add a thought to all this.

I seem to recall that my parents were the ones that taught me abc's and arithmetic..which includes making change...even while in school!! I know we have a real problem with BOTH teachers and kids in school....teachers cannot teach kids that ..do not cooperate....and of course some (teachers) don't either!!....somehow this education process has been screwed up.....parents don't seem to have the manners to teach their kids manners, BUT that does not belay the fact that kids can and DO educate themselves to want to do better....as many of you know and have seen where you have met a few younguns that do want to learn and do better. Seems that common sense sure aint common, where has it gone??

As you folks can see with our current events our "leaders" sure do not seem to have any...common sense....Personally I think the entire group in our government should not serve more than 2 terms and be gone....this lifetime dowry system is ridiculous and is teaching our people that they too are entitled to have everything......without effort or being productive or helpful. Like it is owed them! Don't get me started on the hollywood idiots!!

B Town
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Re: What Happens When Us Old Farts Die?

Post by B Town » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:34 am

"What happens when old us old farts die?"

Knowledge, skills, willing work forces shrink. Less productivity, costs continue to rise as the available $$ compete for the limited number of workers/talent. Can anyone say "nanny state" or better yet "guaranteed income".

There are been some good examples listed above. And, I agree with them. But I also suspect this has been going on for generations. I am one of the youngest in my family, i.e.- grandparents gone in their 80-90's when is was ~10yo. I have cousins that are 30yrs my superior. I suspect each older generation has said and talked about this very subject, regarding younger generations/whipper-snappers. Prime example would be horse vs tractor.

To cutting edge- I feel the best when i am around people 15-25 years older than me. Usually hard workers, with skills and/or small business owners.

To Amos- what brand of bibs do you wear. I haven't worn anything but Roundhouse, since Keys went to Russia and beyond.
Take care gents, Bruce.

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amos
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Re: What Happens When Us Old Farts Die?

Post by amos » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:54 am

Carhartt: like the fit better than Roundhouse.Wear them 7 days a week.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

User avatar
Stan Disbrow
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Re: What Happens When Us Old Farts Die?

Post by Stan Disbrow » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:50 am

Hi,

Actually, we don't have to die off before our knowledge and skill become lost. I have been looking to continue my engineering career and no one is hiring anyone over the age of 50. The reason given is that everything has changed since our schooling ended and our knowledge is too out of date. It doesn't matter that this demographic happens to be the one that made those changes.

The real reason is that they can hire someone right out of college for less than half the salary. The issue is worse the higher the education one has. Many of those I have worked with in the past formed small R+D shops and so there is the opportunity to contract around as needed. And, there are contract manufacturing houses to actually make the products developed.

So, the old farts continue on but there is not the opportunity to properly educate the next generation when everyone is spread out all over the map like too little butter on too much bread. It really disconnects when those in R+D are not associated with those in manufacturing.

In the past, the cohesive corporations would hire someone with a 4-year degree right out of school and then pair them up with a seasoned engineer with 10+ years of experience. That way, they learn all the realities: Research, development, manufacturing, service and disposal (we call it 'womb to tomb') They come out of school with theory but no experience. Now the standard is to have all inexperienced folks sit and stare at the things which go wrong because there is no one capable of figuring it out.

The experienced are few compared to the rest, and they are now busy trying to run a business they have no time for engineering. And, it seems like the bigger outfits are running into the problem as well. Far too many having battery issues, just to name one thing.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

dtoots1
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Re: What Happens When Us Old Farts Die?

Post by dtoots1 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:57 pm

Yup!!!! as long as they have a body that don't cost much...that is all they need....doesn't matter that they don't do anything productive or really "know" how to. A college education is practically required to even get a job...and then they start em at the lowest they can.
Actually i had a total of 3 months college education but did manage to learn several different kinds of trades....including computer programming, finish carpentry, building state approved pole barns/bldgs, designed and built our own house, put in all electrical and plumbing and including rebuilding /repairing 2010 dozer and farm tractors--this last since i was in my 70s, and yes taught sons and daughters how to do what they wanted to accomplish as well.
.
It appears that a person has to WANT to accomplish whatever is required., and am sure that most of you guys have done similar.

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