Inj Pump Irritations and Frustrations

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amos
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Location: Piney Woods of east Texas

Inj Pump Irritations and Frustrations

Post by amos » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:01 am

Nice sunny day yesterday so had to get busy.Haircut then off to the farm.Ran everything(was supposed to do last weekend but RAIN),did some road repair,knocked down some dead trees close to lane with TLB,and finishing up and remembered haven't started Miller 300 amp diesel welder in a while.
Fuel,air,and compression and she should run right? Had air as I was breathing fine and filter has less than 2 hours. Had compression as hour meter(working) shows 263 hours(welder was one of my military surplus deals).Tank 3/4 full of fuel and no diesel slime. Fuel pump pumping,and fuel filters have same less than 2 hours of use.
Fiddled with it and it started. Woo-Hoo then it died as if fuel shut off switch was turned off. Re-checked everything and in a few minutes it started and then died again as is fuel was shut off. WTF?
Bled all fuel lines,checked grounds and it started then died again.
Then I pulled the top off the IP and checked the fuel shut off solenoid coil: looked fine then bench tested it. Put test leads on the coil and all is well. Put test leads on external wire lugs and it worked then wouldn't. Then it worked then it wouldn't.?!?!?!
Finally found that the ground wire had broken loose from the lug at the solder joint. Wire would touch the lug and it would work, Wire would lose contact and it wouldn't work.Brought it home and once I found my solder gun resoldered wire to lug, and it worked fine. To go back to farm today and re-install.
Might not need the welder anytime soon but when i need something I want it to work.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: Inj Pump Irritations and Frustrations

Post by Stan Disbrow » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:24 am

Hi,

I would call that electrical, not IP, which is good as it is a much easier and cheaper repair! :)

I had a similar thing where the fuse blew going to the IP solenoid on the 5103. It was electrical, but not at the IP. This newer mechanical IP has a variability for fuel flow hot vs. cold. That is powered by the same line but via a hot/cold switch in the water jacket where it feeds the top of the radiator. It was fine cold, then blew the fuse hot as the inside of the switch broke and shorted to ground.

Of course, it does this at the point furthest from the workshop. The quick fix was to just wire around the switch and replace the fuse and get a new switch later.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
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Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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amos
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Re: Inj Pump Irritations and Frustrations

Post by amos » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:33 am

Forgot to mention it took me over 3 dang hours to find the problem but it was one of the more non-typical problems I've ever come across.Local shop rates make that a $500.00+ repair (crazy). And of course the rain is coming back today.
Also: way back years ago a man could rent a bay to do his own vehicle maintenance and repair. Rent for a few hours or a few weeks(engine rebuild etc)
and there would be a pretty good mechanic or two there to give advice and help.
I haven't seen one in decades and apparently they went the way of the dinosaurs. Probably a liability issue and lawyers ruined it for everyone.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

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amos
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Re: Inj Pump Irritations and Frustrations

Post by amos » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:38 am

Morning Stan,
Yup on electrical but mimicked fuel starvation at injectors: solenoid dropping out and shutting off fuel definitely starves injectors for fuel :P
Rules written in stone:
Nothing breaks when you don't need it.
Nothing breaks down where your tools are.
If it can go wrong it will: question is when and not if.
:D
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

dtoots1
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Re: Inj Pump Irritations and Frustrations

Post by dtoots1 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:05 am

And YUP tis the liability issue!!!

What i cannot figure is where the idiots that get damaged....do not have "Liability" for their own "negligence". ? What happened to the concept of "its my own fault"???? i.e. should not have stood on the top of the step ladder or been more careful with the "HOT" coffee? etc etc.

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amos
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Re: Inj Pump Irritations and Frustrations

Post by amos » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:25 am

Frustration just went up a notch: coil on IP fuel solenoid working perfectly and welder started right up,ran for about 45 seconds, then it died then it started then it died...
Removed fuel return line from top of IP and ran it into a bucket: as long as fuel is coming from return line it runs. But when fuel stops running from return line it stops.
At one stop event I pulled fuel supply to IP and had enough fuel pressure to send fuel spraying several feet so that discounts fuel supply issue.
Only thing left is internal issue with seals on IP causing back pressure/internal fluid recirc and loss of pumping.
All ears on input and thoughts.
Miller Trailblazer 44D with a Teledyne Continental TDM 27 4 cyl diesel non-turbo engine.1985 model.
And,when I pulled the IP there are no timing marks to be found. Taking the IP to a shop today to get it tested and repaired(hopefully) and will pick the owners brain a bit.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

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amos
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Location: Piney Woods of east Texas

Re: Inj Pump Irritations and Frustrations

Post by amos » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:38 am

Update: called my IP guy and described what was going on:"well Amos there is a neoprene flex shaft within the pump and low sulpher diesel will degrade that as well as the internal seals.You seem to have high pressure migration within the pump. Pop the side plate off and you might see what looks like coffee grounds..." Mouse turds strike again!
Dropping it off to be rebuilt. Will update on price when I get the bill.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

User avatar
amos
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Posts: 360
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:29 am
Location: Piney Woods of east Texas

Re: Inj Pump Irritations and Frustrations

Post by amos » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:53 am

Injection pump still not done and while waiting I downloaded the manual for the engine and did find the timing marks: a small side bevel cut on the drive gear and a small notch on the crankshaft pulley(very small cut). Got everything set to a few degrees before TDC on #1 cylinder and IP should be done and ready to install this coming weekend.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

User avatar
amos
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Posts: 360
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:29 am
Location: Piney Woods of east Texas

Re: Inj Pump Irritations and Frustrations

Post by amos » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:33 pm

Got the bill: $350.38.150.38 parts and 200.00 expertise and labor. Will install this weekend and see what happens.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

User avatar
amos
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Posts: 360
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:29 am
Location: Piney Woods of east Texas

Re: Inj Pump Irritations and Frustrations

Post by amos » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:25 am

Finally got back to do the IP install: got it installed and all is as it should be.Did some grading on lane while at the farm and wife wants to spend next weekend there. Weather perfect and also put well back in service(drained system during winter months).More rain tuesday through friday this coming week though.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

B Town
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Location: Western Iowa

Re: Inj Pump Irritations and Frustrations

Post by B Town » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:18 am

Happy Easter Amos,
It is one of the best feelings when things work as they should or you have rescued a piece other have deemed "expired"! Glad to hear your machine is back in service. Bruce

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