jd440 gas wheeled w/loader and hoe

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dtoots1
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jd440 gas wheeled w/loader and hoe

Post by dtoots1 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:18 pm

am looking at a jd440 gas wheeled tractor with backhoe and front loader..is 2 cylinder also

can anyone tell me what weight i might be looking at?
Last edited by dtoots1 on Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jim B
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Re: jd440 gas wheeled

Post by Jim B » Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:14 pm

Hi dtoots1,
How you doing?

TractorData shows 4085 to 4421 pounds for a 440I and 1320 pounds for a 70 loader. They don't give weights for the 50 or 51 backhoes, but I'd allow 2000 pounds. So 4421 plus 1320 plus 2000 = 7741 pounds. That might or might not cover loaded tires, If they are loaded. Kind of ballpark, but HTH.
Jim

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Re: jd440 gas wheeled w/loader and backhoe

Post by dtoots1 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:10 pm

Hey JimB
doin fine..bit wet but rather warm here today..sure like that better than cold!!!

Tigerhaze, Lavoy and JimB...
do either of you know what for hydraulic pump this outfit would take? Its about an hour away from me so not looked at yet...and don't know if is jd50 hoe yet.....new front tires and rebuilt power assist....says can't find parts to rebuild hydraulic pump?...may be in parts.....mite get for $2000???? thoughts

know Tigerhaze Has jd50hoe and mite know weight???

was running until blew hydraulic pump!!!

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Lavoy
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Re: jd440 gas wheeled

Post by Lavoy » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:29 am

Normally a Hydreco pump, and either parts are not available, or quite expensive, and replacement pumps are very expensive. I would just assume that you are going to have to put a different pump on it. I have some of the work done to make a kit to replace these pumps with modern pumps and readily available drives, just have not completed the project.
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dtoots1
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Re: jd440 gas wheeled

Post by dtoots1 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:40 am

got pic of tag...shows serial number 71 988

will pursue further..let know if any help or pumps out there...

model 50 weight is 2455lbs.. tho don't know if is model 50 yet

dtoots1
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Re: jd440 gas wheeled w/loader and hoe

Post by dtoots1 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:13 am

OK so what for pumps are available??? prices ???

Now couple question, according to the jd50 series...requires up to 2000psi, i think was 24gpm?...tho don't know if is jd50 yet, gotta check serial number and see what that says...what capacity tank would that require as well?

also, what about using a 12 volt electric hydraulic pump, like used in dump trucks etc???? if the jd440 set up for 12volt again don't know yet..

according to tractor data they show a jd51 model for the jd440 wheeled, can't find specifications for weight yet...

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Re: jd440 gas wheeled w/loader and hoe

Post by Lavoy » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:34 pm

Factory hoe would be 50 or 51 in that vintage. Should be about 24GPM/1500PSI (without doing further research).
I was hoping to have a complete conversion kit with pump, mount, and drive component for less than $1000. Last Hydreco I sold was $1400, and some
driveline parts hard to come by.
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Re: jd440 gas wheeled w/loader and hoe

Post by Jim B » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:49 pm

Most of those 12 volt hydraulic power packs are only a couple gallons per minute flow and not intended to run continuous. If there is room, and you can't find a pump to front mount, a pump mounted on the PTO shaft might be an option. They go up to 40gpm and 2250 psi. It could be plumbed to the current reservoir and pressure lines.

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Re: jd440 gas wheeled w/loader and hoe

Post by dtoots1 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:14 pm

ok...so what wold be needed if took hoe off to operate loader? or loader off to run hoe? i.e. only need run 1 at time, disconnect supply etc..

doubt if old cessna pumps would do...

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Re: jd440 gas wheeled w/loader and hoe

Post by Jim B » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:59 pm

Hopefully someone with a 440I set up like this will be along with real info. It’s too late today to start my next project so I’ve had a few minutes and looked at the parts catalogs and will post what it looks like to me.

It looks like the loader may be a 71, not a 70 as TractorData shows. The parts catalog shows the 70 loader is for a compact tractor. Lavoy was right in the ballpark for gpm. The 71 parts book shows several pumps were used: Hydreco 23 gpm, Commercial Shearing 23 gpm, a 13 gpm pump, and a Cessna Pump (no gpm given). The loader frame is used as the reservoir.

The 50 and 51 backhoes are both in the same parts catalog. Info there seems to indicate the hoes could have a reservoir in/on them when used on some machines, including the 440I. I have to believe that reservoir was used when the machine only had a hoe mounted. Nothing about a pump, so I would say the 23 gpm pumps, shown for the 71 loader, were used when the tractor had a backhoe on it. (The 13 gpm pump would likely work if the 440I had just a loader.) A diverter valve shows as well for a backhoe on a 440I with a 71 loader as the loader reservoir is used for both units.

If the loader reservoir is used for both loader and hoe, you might remove the loader arms and bucket but not the frame, if you want to use the hoe. You could remove the hoe and still use the loader. I think you need to see just how it is currently plumbed/valved and what the reservoir set up is before you can figure out what can come of and what must stay. Also what can be done as far as the pump.

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Re: jd440 gas wheeled w/loader and hoe

Post by dtoots1 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:45 pm

well guy says he does have hoe chained up and can lift loader with his skid steer to test drive and load on trailer....

just have to decide if can get a blamed pump on the booger....

and if that price be a bit more reasonable...gonna try for 2 grand knowing blamed hydreco looking at 1000 or more....still not convinced on 12volt pump...they have them with 5 gal cap reservoir at 3150psi, just don't know gpm

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Re: jd440 gas wheeled w/loader and hoe

Post by Lavoy » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:18 pm

12 volt electric are a couple gallons per minute, won't even begin to run a hoe or a loader, not to mention duty cycle.
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Re: jd440 gas wheeled w/loader and hoe

Post by Stan Disbrow » Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:45 am

Hi,

I have seen several 440I machines where the 51 hoe was run off a PTO pump and the loader off the engine cam driven pump. But, then, they were gas engines, too. I never saw a 440ID with a 51 hoe done like that. I always thought that was a factory scheme for a 440I loader tractor when adding a hoe in the field. They always looked too neat and too similar to be other than a Deere solution to my eye. But, we all know how old machines can get different stuff over the years. Regardless, that can be an option. Once you have a hoe on the back, you aren't going to use the PTO for anything else, anyway.

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Re: jd440 gas wheeled w/loader and hoe

Post by Jim B » Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:54 am

dtoots1,

If you are seeing something different for an electric pump then what I think you are talking about, please post the info. This one is typical of the ones I find. https://primarymover.com/collections/hy ... 5677476867 Yes it has plenty of pressure, but not the pump output volume needed to operate the loader and hoe. It provides 2 GPM. It appears the pumps used with the loader/backhoes provided 23 GPM, over 11 times as much. An electric pump would work to lift the dead loader and hoe for transport but it won't cut it to work the loader/hoe. Those electric pump units have valves built in them and run a dump body, truck or trailer, up (and down if double acting); for 2-3 minutes, then they are shut off. They are not intended or built to run for hours on end, with the valve open as would be needed (the loader and hoe valves need to be the controlling valves). In regards to reservoir, the 5 gallons doesn't mean much, a 100 gallon reservoir doesn't make the pump any more capable. The existing tractor reservoir should be used, just as it would be with an engine or PTO driven pump. Sorry but as Lavoy and I posted, I can't see an electric pump being the answer for your need. I don't want to see you buy one, just to find out it isn't up to the task. An engine or PTO driven pump is needed. JMHO
Jim

dtoots1
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Re: jd440 gas wheeled w/loader and hoe

Post by dtoots1 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:54 am

O>K> guys i am a bit ignorant as to those kinds of operations, which is why i post these questions, your answers are what i needed to understand.

did find out there seems to be 2 different hydreco pumps...2 bolt mount and4 bolt mount...this is 4 bolt, what i see from pics from owner.

what is it that actually goes out n these things??..shafts gears bearings??

and what else uses these types of pumps and same load on them? 350 2010?????

ok next question that comes to mind...if the jd440's are set up to use the cam pumps...will that operate the loader? and take off the hoe till something better comes along?

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