Price of soil.

[kedorland]

I haven't been on here for some time and am in need of some sage advice.

Now that Iowa is where I can move some soil we're starting to build creek crossings in a small valley, with our 450C, that is bottomless black dirt.

Am piling some and starting to sell some. This is a good as black dirt can become.

Opinions and/or thoughts as to what the market should bear as far as price/U.S. Ton or SAE cubic yard?

Thank you all.

Kevin from Iowa.

[Willyr]

You need to call some one in your area. I would call a garden center and ask what the going rate is for dark top soil per yard then go by that.

[Lavoy]

At a garden center here, you are looking at $50/yd. From a contractor I would guess somewhere around half that. Around here, black dirt is at least as high as class 5, probably normally higher.
Lavoy

[Willyr]

LOL here in Maine top soil black is a $100 to $150 is why I said to check in your area. It all depends on demand and where you live. Here in Maine we grow ledge more than we grow lawns.

[Tigerhaze]

Kevin-

Interesting that you bring up this topic as that has been a recent point of discussion on a couple of my design projects (I am a construction cost engineer).

As others have said, the price varies on locale due to local demand and soil conditions (i.e. soil quality). It also depends if you are pricing based on wholesale supply to other contractors or pricing for retail purchasers. The approach others mentioned of getting vendor quotes is probably the best gauge for your locale for retail costs.

That aside, the prices people have mentioned are somewhat higher than what I see if you are looking solely at material cost. I have access to R.S. Means CostWorks (a reputable cost source for the construction industry) and it indicates a material cost of $22 per lcy (nationwide average) with somewhat lower cost for Iowa ($19.88 per lcy for Des Moines). I will say that I don't always trust R.S. Means on costs for earthen materials such as topsoil. Many of the recent cost quotes I have personally received for topsoil (material only) range from $6 to $35 per loose cubic yard (lcy)- these were from across the nation and generally priced wholesale for construction contractors.

Delivery can double or even triple that cost, at a minimum (depending on haul distance). It's not to say the other numbers provided aren't accurate for the locale, but you should consider whether you will provide the hauling and price accordingly.

Whether you price by yard or by ton depends on your access to a scale- while scales are common in ag areas like Iowa it takes extra time and money to weigh so many just "guestimate" the loose yardage from their loader bucket or truck bed. The need to accurately measure depends on your client (again whether you would supply contractors or retail purchasers).

Here is an interesting source about this- I can't vouch for it but found it in a quick search through my files on the subject:

http://home.costhelper.com/soil.html

Let us know if you have additional questions.

[gus]

Here it's top rock, big rocks, boulders and solid rock

What's black dirt??

[kedorland]

To all:

Deeply appreciate the input from around the country. I moved some for $50.00/ton. Bucket on our 450CA is 1.3 cyd..so rough out the weight/cubic yards ratio...as stated...don't always have easy access to scales...and always round up to asure the end user receives their money's worth.

Reason I asked on this forum.... is that at $50.00/Ton and ten cuntomers later I had 11 differing opinions about the price of black dirt. Some I can't repeat here.

Some is selling at that...have a retailer that may be interested..and would leave the farm at 16 to 18 ton (his truck) at a time.....price to him may be $25.00 to $30.00/ton.

Am an engineer myself...and was humbling to look up the definition of "lcy"

If no breakdowns..this may work.

Kevin D.

[Tigerhaze]

It's interesting to read about someone else doing this- I have a property with bottomlands and have contemplated doing this myself to be able to create some wetlands/marshes/ponds.

Payment by tonnage can be interesting- the method you are using could work OK even though a scale is not involved as long as your topsoil density is realistic, given the moisture conditions. My work projects that involve scales sometimes have squabbles over tonnage because the contractors often want to load and weigh soil paid by tonnage right after it rains

[Paul Buhler]

Hi: Until this discussion, I knew lcy as: loaded cubic yard, and used a calculation of 1.25 x the bank cubic yard as a guesstimate of how much might be available to haul when digging undisturbed earth.

Just another two cents. Paul

[kedorland]

My wife and I bought a piece of land 3 years ago that had been terribly ignored. (The farm still has a few wagon ruts in it.)

After months of burning and clearring the farm is starting to cash flow. We're now to the point creek crossings can be put it and/or brought up in to the 21st century.

What soil I can't sell I hope to spread on a hayfield that has some very poor quality side hills.

I Googled "lcy" and it told me "loose cubic yard"...which, I suppose, may be near the same.

Am greatful for the input.

Kevin

[Tigerhaze]

Hi Paul-

Loose or loaded, whaetever someone calls it, is essentially the same idea; that soil becomes less compacted when excavated and piled. You should know that the expansion factor between the bank and loose state (i.e. the 1.25 number) varies based on type of soil. 20%-25% expansion is generally an OK approximation for loamy soils but can go higher for really organic soils or lower for primarily sandy or gravelly soils. Blasted rock can have an even higher expansion factor. As part of my job, I have developed a field standard operating procedure for my company to determine a more exact percentage for this volume to supplement already existing ASTM test methods.

You should also note that once you place and compact soil, there is a similar decrease in volume and that is called the compaction factor which can be a 5 to 20 percent reduction depending on material. Usually the compacted volume(called compacted cubic yards CCY) doesn't usually get quite back to the bank volume. For anyone wanting to illustrate it for themselves, you can simply dig a hole and try to fill it back in. The hole's volume is the bank volume, the pile's volume is the loose volume, and the volume of the mounded soil in the hole after filling it back in is the compacted volume. Usually some compactive effort will be needed to get it all back in, more so for organic soils.

At the scale of work most of you guys are doing, what you use for the expansion factor won't matter too much. I deal with projects that are in the millions of cubic yards, and when you have that much volume even a small change in volume state can make a big difference in overall cost.