JD Wheel Tractor Recommendations

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Tigerhaze
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JD Wheel Tractor Recommendations

Post by Tigerhaze » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:08 pm

Good afternoon-

I know I could go to other sites to ask this question but know that many of you are into the "Johnny Poppers" as well as the early "New Generation" tractors so thought I would start here first.

I have been looking for a while now to replace my current wheel tractor (a Ford 8N) with a similar size JD wheel tractor. My main reason for doing so is the 8N doesn't have live hydraulics or PTO. I also wouldn't mind a slight increase in size but am not looking for anything more than 50 HP and am not wanting anything newer than mid 70s. I don't need a loader since I have skid steers.

I know a compatible match for me (given my crawler collection) would be a 2010 wheel tractor but have heard that the hydraulic pumps on those go out and are a real pain to repair/replace if they go bad.

I have seen several 420s (gas) available in my price range, and was wondering how that would compare to a 8N? There is one coming up in particular at an auction that I might look at. I did hear that live PTO may have only been an option on the 5-speeds- can you confirm?

I have also thought about the "early" New Generations such as the 2500 series. What are your thoughts on them?

I also was thinking it would be nice to have an industrial wheel tractor (JD 300?) for using with my Model 50 (open center) backhoe attachment. Ideally it would be great to have one wheel tractor for everything but my understanding is you can get a rear hoe attachment, or three point, but not both. What are your thoughts on that as well?

Thanks in advance.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

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Lavoy
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Post by Lavoy » Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:58 pm

Unless you are hung up on a two cylinder, I would look at a 1020 if you can find one. Many different styles available, should be able to find one that fits your needs. 420 is fine, less power, less hyd, not likely to have power steering. Yes, live PTO is 5 speed only. Either would be a hell of a step up from an 8N.
I have not heard the problems on 2010 hyd pumps, I would honestly not worry about it. You will most likely only ever do it once, if at all.
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johnHD
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Post by johnHD » Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:43 pm

I have a mid 70's 1020 gas and I love it.

perfect size and implements that fit it are inexpensive. I run a 6 foot mower behind it. No problem with tall weeds in 2nd gear.

john

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jdlou
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Post by jdlou » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:21 pm

We both live in Missouri, I am south of St. Louis were cedar trees and hills are common. I just sold my 1956 420 W in March. I bought a 1971 1020 utility in May. I use these tractors for raking hay, and sickle bar mowing. The 1020 has brakes that you lightly touch with your foot and things stop. I weigh 225 lbs and it took all I had to get the 420 to stop going downhill. My 420 did not have power steering like the 1020 so I always got an upper body workout. I have 3 other JD utilities that are diesel, my 1020 is gas, I am partial to diesels but this was in too good of shape to pass up. Just my 2 cents worth... Good Luck!!!! Lou :D
:)jdlou(:

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Stan Disbrow
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Post by Stan Disbrow » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:34 am

Hi,

I also say go with the 1020. That is one of the 3-cyl units from the late 60s, the others being the smaller 820 (do not confuse with the earlier Big Dog 2-cyl diesels with the same model number) and the larger 1520.

Think JD350 in crawlers. That matches up with the 1520. I had a JD350 and a 1520 at the same time for a while back in the 90s. They were a wonderful combination: crawler/dozer and tractor/loader. You can't beat the 3-cyl engines. They run forever, and are inherently balanced (no extra balancing shaft in there).

The 20 series was available gas or diesel. IIRC, they went diesel only in the 30 series. But maybe I misremember and that did not occur until the 40 series.

They carried the same three into the early 70s 30 series (830, 1030, 1530).

The 1520 carried on continually, just changing the model number over the years. The eventually added a turbo, and it is now known as the 5045D. I have one just a little older, as the 5103 bought new in 08. In the late 70s, Deere dropped the two smaller 3-cyl units in favor of an entire line of Yanmar sourced machines, starting with the 50 series.

The only thing I did not like about my 1520 was the center-closed hydraulics. The 820 and 1020 were open-center though. Same with the 30 series. I cannot recall just when Deere stopped using center-closed, though if you stick with the smaller models, it will not matter anyway.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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Stan Disbrow
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Post by Stan Disbrow » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:46 am

Hi,

I think the JD300 is a 1520, only with open-center hydraulics. Oh, and yellow paint, of course.

The hoe bolts up, so no 3pt there. Might could convert the hoe to 3pt and hook to a 1520, as it is Cat-II for the hitch. Oh, and you would have to change to an open-center hyd pump. The hoes are all open center.

The whole deal with closed-center revolved around farming power loads. The CC pump would self-neutralize when not being used, and so not take power to flow fluid aimlessly. So, full power was always at the PTO and wheels.

It was one of the Big Deal things about the New Generation of Power. It was always on the big iron, like 40xx and 30xx machines. It trickled down to the 1520 and 30. It was never on the smaller machines, as you were not going to load the heck out of the smaller units.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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Stan Disbrow
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Post by Stan Disbrow » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:36 am

Hi,

Oh. Yes. Buried in the OP is a query about live PTO on 420. Yes, the 5-speed could have a coaxial input shaft. One was Go and one was PTO. Used a 2-stage clutch pedal. Halfway down stopped Go. All the way down stopped Go and PTO.

Usually found on the T versions, the Tricycle and the W versions, the Row Crop Utility. They both offered dual rockshafts, one for 3 pt and one for a 2-row cultivator. They could be pinned together and a valve moved so both pistons and rockshafts moved together on the lift, doubling the load capacity.

Also the T and the W versions were usually equipped with a set of remote sockets. Most times they came with spin out wheels, too. This for both the 420 and 430 and also the 435 with the Detroit Diesel.

Usually the other 420 and 430 sub models did not have the live PTO, nor did they have the dual rockshafts. I like the row-crop utility (W) the best for use as a small farm tractor as it has a heavy wide front end along with all the other goodies.

I had both a 420W and a 430W alongside the 420C. Then, I sold them both and bought a new 4500 in 98, which subsequently was traded in on the 5103 in 08 when I got to missing my 1520 (which, ironically, was sold in 96 to get the 420W).

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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Stan Disbrow
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2523
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Post by Stan Disbrow » Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:40 pm

jdlou wrote:We both live in Missouri, I am south of St. Louis were cedar trees and hills are common. I just sold my 1956 420 W in March. I bought a 1971 1020 utility in May. I use these tractors for raking hay, and sickle bar mowing. The 1020 has brakes that you lightly touch with your foot and things stop. I weigh 225 lbs and it took all I had to get the 420 to stop going downhill. My 420 did not have power steering like the 1020 so I always got an upper body workout. I have 3 other JD utilities that are diesel, my 1020 is gas, I am partial to diesels but this was in too good of shape to pass up. Just my 2 cents worth... Good Luck!!!! Lou :D
Hi,

Both my 420W and 430W had brake issues. Simply putting in new discs fixed them both.

When the fiber brake discs are thick, the ball bearing 'power assist' actually works. They have these balls that drop in behind the plate when you step on the pedal. Uses the machine motion as the braking power assist source. But, if the discs get too thin, this does not happen and you need to stand on the pedals to even begin to slow down.

I got both mine pretty cheaply because the brakes stunk. The owners of each looked and found nothing wrong. The discs look good, of course, so why measure the thickness?

I did not have power steering on either. I know it was available, but I rarely see it on anything smaller than a 620. Upper Body Workout it is! Still, better than an 8n.... ;)

Stan

Edit:

Oh, and don't let braking issues scare anyone away from a W. They have these brake 'drums' ahead of the axles. Easy to get to. No need to split off the axles like on the Standards.

The 'drum' is really a housing with one face of a stationary metal disc. Then a fiber disc on a splined shaft. Then the actuation plates with the balls inside. Then the second fiber disc, then the face of the main casting is the final metal face 'disc'.

The pedal works the central two stationary metal discs, which then push in and out against the fiber discs. The fiber discs are what rotate, and they can slide along that splined shaft. The balls drop in grooves and push harder on the fibers with speed. As long as the balls do not reach the end of their grooves, this works great.

Of course, when the fibers get too thin, the balls do reach the end of the grooves, and all that is left is....your leg!

Oh, and like crawler steering clutches, these are supposed to be dry. If the seal on the shaft leaks, well.....

Later machines use similar brakes in an hyd oil bath. Hmmmm. Just like later crawler steering clutches! :)

Why do I get the feeling that the wheel tractor engineer keep on looking over at what the crawler engineers are doing, and say: Look what they do! :shock:

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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