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CuttingEdge
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Here: More Questions than Answers

Post by CuttingEdge » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:19 pm

So, I managed to finally get the PTO Generator I was promised home, and now that it is here, I have more questions than answers.

The unit seems to be heavy duty, and is bigger than I thought. It is 20,000 watts, but I thought it was only 60 Amps, but is actually 83 amps...plenty for my house. But in reading the builders plate it says Burden...nothing else...so I looked it up on the internet, and the nearest thing I could come up with was that it it originated from "Burden Surplus Center". As everyone knows, this is was; and still is, a clearing house of no-name and discontinued stuff. I am pretty sure this is the case as this is the type of stuff they do carry.

But then the PTO shaft is odd. It is not splined, but is actually has a woodruff key, and shear pin. This would make a person think that it is NOT a PTO generator at all, but the model number specifically says Model 20,000 Power Take Off; they do not even abbreviate it PTO. And there are PTO farming type shields on the unit itself, so I am thinking it might be a PTO/Electric motor combination type generator?

Yet despite having a gearbox, it says 3600 rpm on the builders plate. Surely this must be the rpm measured at the generator input shaft and not PTO speed? Anyone run into this before? i was hoping to just go out and buy a PTO shaft and hook it up, but it seems like it will take a bit of working to get it making power.

The rest of it looks pretty good. Wiring looks good, fuses are still good, etc. I think I will shim it/bolt it to the concrete floor of my lambing shed, then run the PTO shaft outside through the wall and hook it to my bulldozer. I don't think my 25 hp Kubota would power it well enough, but my John Deere 350D should handle it I would think.
I have no intention of traveling to my grave in a well manicured body; instead I am going to slide into heaven with a big power turn, totally wore out with busted knuckles, jump off my dozer loudly yelling, Woo Hoo, another Shepard has just arrived!

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Lavoy
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Re: Here: More Questions than Answers

Post by Lavoy » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:10 pm

3600 must be armature speed, not PTO speed. I would guess someone took the original shaft off to run it with something other than a tractor, but who knows.
Usually you can only pull 50 amps out of the plug if it has one, and any higher load you will have to hook up directly. Some have a little door that you can open up and the coupler or wires will be in there.
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Stan Disbrow
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Re: Here: More Questions than Answers

Post by Stan Disbrow » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:28 pm

Hi,

The standard generator shaft speeds for 60Hz AC are 1800 and 3600, so there is one answer....

If it is a PTO generator, first thing it will have is a gearbox to spin the generator at 3600 from a 540 input.

Stan
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Re: Here: More Questions than Answers

Post by pop pop » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:41 am

does this have an open frame? can you see inside? anything mounted inside on the shaft?
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CuttingEdge
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Re: Here: More Questions than Answers

Post by CuttingEdge » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:29 am

I have found out this is a Winco PTO Generator after all, probably sold through Supply Center at one time. The 3600 rpm IS at the generator shaft end, but that Winco Generator's requires a PTO adapter. It is a strange shaft size; female, smooth bore, 1.125 inch; the latter being the most odd part. But I can buy a PTO adapter from Supply Center at 1 inch and just bore it out by .125, so no big deal.

It has been 5 degrees outside the last few days, so I have not bothered to freeze my fingers off by working on it. That was a pretty poor plan, as for the third time in three weeks we have lost electricity for lengthy periods of times. I guess this is going to be the winter of no electricity...until I get the generator going of course, then the power will never go out.

My domestic supervisor, also known as my wife Katie; says I should mount it to a trailer I have kicking around, so that I can have a portable generator of sorts. It would make gear box oil changes easier to do, put the pto shaft at the right height, and be easy to bolt down. In those ways it seems silly not to do. As soon as it warms up to a reasonable temperature, I will do that I think. I can make a dog house for it if I want to keep it under cover.
I have no intention of traveling to my grave in a well manicured body; instead I am going to slide into heaven with a big power turn, totally wore out with busted knuckles, jump off my dozer loudly yelling, Woo Hoo, another Shepard has just arrived!

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Re: Here: More Questions than Answers

Post by Lavoy » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:40 pm

I have had Winco's, no adapter needed, someone has to have changed the shaft. Put a new shaft on it and go.
Yes to the trailer, much handier. If you mount an electrical box with extra outlets and some breakers on it, lots more utility if you use it for off site power for something.
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Jim B
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Re: Here: More Questions than Answers

Post by Jim B » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:29 pm

Do you have a PTO shaft which would have hooked to a drive unit, or are you referring to the input shaft of the gearbox being 1.125" with a 1/4" key way and a hole through it? That is the arrangement on my unit's gearbox. If that is the case you need a PTO shaft with a plain yoke on the generator end with the 1.125" smooth bore, a 1/4" keyway, and likely a roll pin, or bolt, through the hole to keep it from coming off, the key will take the shear forces. The WinCo website shows a number of different PTO shafts (and details), one with the 1.125" bore yoke for the gearbox end. They also show an adapter to go from the 1.125" keyed smooth bore to the 1-3/8", 6 spline PTO end as well, if you want to remove the shaft to use on different pieces of equipment.

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CuttingEdge
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Re: Here: More Questions than Answers

Post by CuttingEdge » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:00 pm

Yes, in going to the Winco Generator site I see that a unique PTO can be bought just for it. I guess you have to order through a dealership, and I found one not to far away. I would call them today, but being a weekend, they are closed. $240 for a PTO shaft is not bad considering how much I paid for this generator ($0.00)

Of course now the power will never go out. I say that because they got (5) tree trimming crews here, and have been all week. They even got an excavator with a mulching head that is molyhocking the living tarnashion out of anything anywhere near the line.

I would be impressed, but Maine has one of the highest electric rates in the country, and after the last storm announced rates are going up 8% even more...then were quick to add that "it has nothing to do with the previous wind storm." yeah right PUC; every time we have a windstorm that knocks out power all over the state, the rates go up. This gets my lamb because Central Maine Power does not maintain the lines until after a major storm. Maybe some of it is landowners squawk when their trees get trimmed, so doing so just after they are reminded how much they like the lights on, they can get out and trim the trees. But honestly, I think they get what they can out of FEMA, then get the rest from rate payers in higher rates, when they should have been trimming trees all along. It is good business practice, but sad for customers.
I have no intention of traveling to my grave in a well manicured body; instead I am going to slide into heaven with a big power turn, totally wore out with busted knuckles, jump off my dozer loudly yelling, Woo Hoo, another Shepard has just arrived!

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CuttingEdge
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Re: Here: More Questions than Answers

Post by CuttingEdge » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:03 pm

Lavoy wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:40 pm
I have had Winco's, no adapter needed, someone has to have changed the shaft. Put a new shaft on it and go.
Yes to the trailer, much handier. If you mount an electrical box with extra outlets and some breakers on it, lots more utility if you use it for off site power for something.
Lavoy
We did that Rock the Flock last year, doing that big rock and roll concert for the Drug Addiction program Teen Challenge, and intend to do the same thing this year, and annually to be honest with you. Last year we had a 5000 watt generator going, but the bands really needed more power to get their light system, amps and all that stuff really cranking. Having a 20 KW unit up there for that would be really nice.
I have no intention of traveling to my grave in a well manicured body; instead I am going to slide into heaven with a big power turn, totally wore out with busted knuckles, jump off my dozer loudly yelling, Woo Hoo, another Shepard has just arrived!

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Re: Here: More Questions than Answers

Post by Lavoy » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:19 pm

PTO is nothing special, if I know what end is on the generator, I should be able to get you one. My PTO shaft came from one of my suppliers when I built my new PTO generator setup last year.
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CuttingEdge
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Re: Here: More Questions than Answers

Post by CuttingEdge » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:58 pm

Lavoy wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:19 pm
PTO is nothing special, if I know what end is on the generator, I should be able to get you one. My PTO shaft came from one of my suppliers when I built my new PTO generator setup last year.
Lavoy
The generator end needs to be female, 1.125 smooth bore, but keyed 1/4 inch. Driveshaft length can be standard length. Other end is preferable to be standard 6 spline 540 RPM, but could be 21 spline if you cannot get a 6 spline.

I say that because I use an adapter on my bulldozer to go from 21 spline to 6 spline, but I only have a 6 spline on my farm tractor.

Let me know what the cost will be if you get a chance Lavoy, I welcome the opportunity to kick some cash your way instead of from some generator company I have no affiliation with. Either way I am sure I will have to order it, so shipping is not a big deal. When you live in Maine, you pay for shipping one way or the other.

http://www.wincogen.com/product/43990-pto-shaft/
I have no intention of traveling to my grave in a well manicured body; instead I am going to slide into heaven with a big power turn, totally wore out with busted knuckles, jump off my dozer loudly yelling, Woo Hoo, another Shepard has just arrived!

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Re: Here: More Questions than Answers

Post by Lavoy » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:35 am

For some reason, I can not find 1 1/8" bore, sorry.
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CuttingEdge
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Re: Here: More Questions than Answers

Post by CuttingEdge » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:37 pm

That is okay Lavoy, thanks for trying. (I hope you did not spend too much time looking, I know everyone is busy this time of year).
I have no intention of traveling to my grave in a well manicured body; instead I am going to slide into heaven with a big power turn, totally wore out with busted knuckles, jump off my dozer loudly yelling, Woo Hoo, another Shepard has just arrived!

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Re: Here: More Questions than Answers

Post by Lavoy » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:08 am

Little bit, but it pissed me off and became a mission! :D I am going to look back if I can find it and see which one I bought for mine. I have a 12KW, can't believe it would be a bigger shaft than a 20KW.
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CuttingEdge
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Re: Here: More Questions than Answers

Post by CuttingEdge » Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:56 am

I ended up getting a PTO shaft at my local dealer.

He had a standard 6 spline, both-ends PTO shaft, and a smooth bore, female yolk, but not 1.125 female yolk, only in inch (common). So I bought that and now just need to bore out the 1.000 hole to 1.125. I was going to take it to a machine shop, but they are closed until 1/2/2018 so I'll just get a 1.125 drill bit and bore it out myself. I then just have to pull the cross out of it and replace the yolk with the smooth bore one and have what I need.

The PTO shaft was $134, and the yolk $42, so I am not too deep into this yet. I wanted to get this on this years taxes. Funny how it seems this was the worst financial year I ever had, and yet on paper it shows that it has been the best.
I have no intention of traveling to my grave in a well manicured body; instead I am going to slide into heaven with a big power turn, totally wore out with busted knuckles, jump off my dozer loudly yelling, Woo Hoo, another Shepard has just arrived!

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