New to me: 450C with 6-way and 93A hoe

Show us pictures of your JD crawler and attachments.
User avatar
Goober
420 crawler
420 crawler
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:12 pm
Location: Penn Valley, CA
Contact:

Post by Goober » Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:18 pm

Interestingly - today while at the Berco dealer I took a look at some brand new chains, sprockets and idlers. My sprockets look almost the same as new sprockets - what am I missing in terms of wear there? The rails on the chains also looked just about as thick as new ones, the pin boss wear doesn't look so new, but makes me wonder how much the rails wear relative to say the pins and bushings. My parts catalog shows mostly SALT chains but looking at the new Berco parts and my chain makes me think I have a dry chain. Which one should my dozer have and are there any reasons besides economics to choose one over the other?

Someone also mentioned welding up bushings to give more wear material - is this a viable option? Seems like there is a lot of pin wear giving me the stretched track so I'm thinking it wouldn't buy me much. Is there ever a condition that makes putting new pins and bushings in an old set of links A reasonable option? It's not much cheaper than new chains - but I like to reuse when possible.

Always great answers from the group that are followed by more questions as I learn. Thanks all.

-Niall

User avatar
jtrichard
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 1883
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Joshua Tree CA

Post by jtrichard » Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:25 am

oh there is wear on the sprockets as the chains wear/stretch they get longer and the links/bushings get off pitch and start climbing the teeth and since you push forward and not much load in reverse most of the wear on the sprockets will be on one side thats why you can flip the sprockets Google "sprocket wear" and it has some nice pics and here is a link on undercarriage wear https://www.rbauction.com/blog/equipmen ... r-tractors .... yes your chains are dry ..... and yes you could repin and bush but is it worth it? you still will have worn rails wore out pads a hole lot of time and labor ....... most of pin and bush jobs are because the chains/rails are not available any longer ...and you will be much better off with new pads,and rails if you plan to keep this machine for many years as the parts will only get harder to find... here is another link it is for motorcycle chain but the same principle apply s here for wear http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-004/000.html about half way down the page it shows why the sprocket wears :) :)
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper

User avatar
Stan Disbrow
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2894
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Post by Stan Disbrow » Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:02 pm

Hi,

I have been following this from the beginning, and keep thinking of this question:

Is this a keeper machine, or a do a couple jobs and peddle it one?

If a keeper, bite the bullet and replace all the worn out u/c. It will be very much worth the cost in the long run.

You can worry about the steering later, as long as it is working now. Unless you want to while you have the tracks off. It is a PIA to rework u/c then have to do steering a few months later. Don't ask how I know that.... ;)

And, lose that backhoe. They kill the back end of the u/c, especially the back two rollers, and even more so on a dozer which is lighter on the front than s loader is....

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

User avatar
Goober
420 crawler
420 crawler
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:12 pm
Location: Penn Valley, CA
Contact:

Post by Goober » Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:23 pm

You know, I'm just not sure on the keeper/few jobs issue. I have a serious hankering to make some money with this beast - been looking for a career change for a while now, and I love to fix and restore old machines (usually woodworking and machine shop stuff, but I am getting the feeling those are gateway machines to heavy machinery). This machine is actually to build the pads for a new horse barn and a 36x72 2 story workshop and a garage for the house. After that I have 3 neighbors waiting in line with roughly 1 week projects each (horse arenas, house pads, road work). My work alone is a breakeven, even after the $2K I just put into the dozer for full service and new rollers. The 3 other jobs will pay for the dozer and then some.

And now that my wife sees it driving around the property, she's thinking horse trails, a new arena for herself, better roads, so I'm thinking that unless we need the money for something it's not getting sold (kinda like my 2001 7.3L F350).

So my current plan still stands as: Put new bottom rollers on (she's up on blocks already), replace all the rotting hoses and do the major service and put it to work making building pads. After that, see if the neighbors are for real, and recoup the purchase price doing their jobs. By then the UC will be about shot except for the new rollers and I'll be spending all my free time building the workshop. When the workshop is closed in and the 2T trolley hoist is installed then the dozer will come in and I'll go over it end to end (any individual parts on small dozers that are over 2T? Should I get the trolley rails sized for 3 or 4T and upgrade the trolley at some point?). After cleaning/restoring, rebushing/bearing, blasting and painting everything it'll be too nice to put in the dirt and I'll have to sell it and buy a grubby one to actually do work :-)

-Niall

User avatar
jtrichard
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 1883
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Joshua Tree CA

Post by jtrichard » Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:19 pm

BUT when you buy the grubby one to do the work you will find that it needs work and then it starts all over again with new hoses tracks ECT. ECT. and then it will be to nice to get dirty and here we go again :lol: :lol: :lol:
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper

User avatar
Tigerhaze
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2278
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:13 pm
Location: West-Central MO

Post by Tigerhaze » Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:18 pm

You should read this site especially the IH manual; it is really helpful for understanding undercarriage:

http://www.tractorparts.com/undercarriage.htm

At the bottom click the link for the IH track school manual.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

User avatar
Tigerhaze
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2278
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:13 pm
Location: West-Central MO

Post by Tigerhaze » Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:29 pm

Goober wrote:My sprockets look almost the same as new sprockets - what am I missing in terms of wear there? The rails on the chains also looked just about as thick as new ones, the pin boss wear doesn't look so new, but makes me wonder how much the rails wear relative to say the pins and bushings. My parts catalog shows mostly SALT chains but looking at the new Berco parts and my chain makes me think I have a dry chain. Which one should my dozer have and are there any reasons besides economics to choose one over the other?

Someone also mentioned welding up bushings to give more wear material - is this a viable option? Seems like there is a lot of pin wear giving me the stretched track so I'm thinking it wouldn't buy me much. Is there ever a condition that makes putting new pins and bushings in an old set of links A reasonable option? It's not much cheaper than new chains - but I like to reuse when possible.
The giveaway to me on your undercarriage condition was how far out your adjuster is on the front idler- it is at the end of the trackframe. That is a giveaway for internal pin wear. Also your sprocket teeth are pointed and thing-they should be mpre thick and rounded somewhat. You can even see the wear in one direction on the teeth.

The IM manual I linked to discusses SLAT chains, and there is a thread on here about them- if you are going to do a lot of commercial work and run the machine a lot they may pay off with longer pin life. However for most of use we don't put enough hours on them to make it worth it.

http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... light=salt

Sometimes it is worth putting on P&Bs on old rails- particularly those of us with 2010s where the rails are obsolete and they don't sell the late sprockets so we are stuck with the rails we have. I believe you still have to take the pads off to do a P&B turn or replacement so no savings there.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

User avatar
Goober
420 crawler
420 crawler
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:12 pm
Location: Penn Valley, CA
Contact:

Post by Goober » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:53 pm

Well - as I power washed in prep for replacing bottom rollers I discovered why the left idler inside flange is so worn - the idler yoke is broken clean in half and is wedged inside the front track frame support, holding the left idler as an outward angle to the track frame - will post pics tomorrow. Changing yoke a hard job? This crawler is just full of surprises - while working the backhoe stabilizers I also noticed some serious gouges in the rops maybe this thing has been rolled.

User avatar
Tigerhaze
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2278
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:13 pm
Location: West-Central MO

Post by Tigerhaze » Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:10 pm

If you are talking about the hydraulic track adjuster, they aren't too bad. You could probably do it in an hour or two but it does require splitting the track on that side.

If you search for my name and track adjuster I think I posted some photos when I did mine.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests