under carriage work on 455E planning stage

[jdcook]

Hello everyone. Sorry for so many questions.

I bought a 455E loader backhoe for the farm. I thought the pins might need to be turned, but now I am told I should pretty much get a new under carriage because the rails are too worn to turn the pins. That was a very sad day. I am hoping to do the work myself.

I am planning to buy new chains and put the old pads on them and replace the rollers and sprockets. I am hoping to reuse the front idler and possibly the top roller. The front idlers have a half inch of thickness on the very outside edge of the surface the rails ride on. How worn is that?

I figure I should purchase an impact wrench to assist me with this project. How many foot pounds of torque do I need? I would buy one of the strongest ones but my compressor won’t handle that. My compressor is a little over 9 CFM at 90 PSI and a little over 11 CFM at 45 PSI. I think the best I can do with that will be around 500 pounds on the impact wrench. Will that do me any good? My compressor is too big to move around easily but yet still is too small for many jobs. What if I were to buy a small compressor that would be handier for small jobs and then hook both of them up to the heavy duty impact wrench? Seems like just another 3 or 4 CFMs would allow me to use a monster impact wrench. Is there any reason this will not work??

The most bolts will be on the track pads. Will 500 ft pounds at least help me with swapping the pads? Some of the heads of the pad bolts are kind of worn. Is it common to have to cut some of them? Should I plan on having to rent or purchase a cutting torch? Maybe I can find a used torch.

Someone told me my pads were kind of worn. But they have an inch of tread (grouser?) welded on both the front and back edges. Shouldn’t this give me some strength and prevent bending?

Any advice on where to get my parts? How about Heavy Quip?

All advice welcome

Thanks Dave in GA

[srs_mn]

Based on my experiences, I'd just plan on torching off ALL the pad bolts.
I think your compressor is too small to run a serious impact wrench, too.
If the pads are quite worn, just start shopping for complete tracks (chain and pads), as mixing new and worn track parts usually is just asking for trouble.
Just my opinions though.
srs_mn

[Lavoy]

I would have to agree, it is likely that the bolts will be so rusted that they will not come off anyway. Even if they do, they will be chewed up enough that it will be a pain to put the pads back on. Best bet is to put new bolts and nuts on. I can get you a quote on undercarriage when you get ready.
Lavoy

[JD430C]

hi, i have been shopping around for chain for my 450C, and right now i can get lubed chain, 16in pads and the hardware kit from CAT cheaper than pin and bushing my chain. dont know if all the CAT dealers are offering that or just the ones up here, but its worth looking into.

andrew

[digitup2]

I have never bought new chains without new grousers attached .It is cheaper than buying bolts and torquing them down to speck .I know that the dollars seem more but in the end you will be up some $ and you will like the new grousers more than your old welded up ones .As a contractor I look at it different than some one that is trying to keep these old Deeres going as cheap as possible but I find it is always the cheaper, better and less frustrating way to go.Lavoy should have the costs for you on chain or complete track group.It just saves a lot of back braking frustration plus you get a nice job in the end .Digitup.

[jdcook]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I will compare the price of a new track to the chains. I had a price quote of $400 to have the old pads put on the new chains. I guess that would be an option. I will just be using it around the house on the weekends it is hard for me to imagine that I would wear the pads out anytime soon, but I could be wrong.

I am really hoping to at least put the new track, sprockets and rollers on myself. I am hoping I can lift the machine with the loader bucket and backhoe to replace the rollers. I want to save the labor cost but I also am hoping to pick up the parts and put them on myself because I don’t have a trailer or dump truck. So, if I can do the work it will save me labor and hauling costs.

Does anyone have a tool list and advice for the job?

Thanks

Dave

[Tigerhaze]

I had a price quote of $400 to have the old pads put on the new chains. I guess that would be an option. I will just be using it around the house on the weekends it is hard for me to imagine that I would wear the pads out anytime soon, but I could be wrong.

Thanks

Dave

Hi Dave-

I think you'll find that pad wear accelerates as the pads get worn down to the pad bolts. I have a 2010 with the triple bar grousers (I believe Deere called them snow pads, typically on loaders) that are worn down to the top of the track bolts, and I have noticed in the past year or two that they seem to be wearing more quickly as time goes on. I am in an area with silt and clay soils, so wear would probably be even quicker in rocky soils. I also have a harder time getting traction when the soils are slick. Also, if your current pads are worn down to the top of the bolts, you will start chewing up the new bolts as soon as uou switch the pads over.

Just my $0.02 but I would consider new track pads if you plan on keeping it any length of time. At least the pads are available!

[jebowen]

What kind of prices have you guys been quoted for the new chains, pads, and sprockets for 450c size dozer?

[JD430C]

hi, i was quoted 750 a side for lubed chain, 16in pads with 9/16ths holes are 10 apiece and the hardware kit is 110 or 118. the cat guy said it would be over 2k to pin and bush my chain.


andrew

[Lavoy]

I would double check on the chain, it might be sealed chain, but I doubt it is sealed and lubed for that money.
Lavoy

[digitup2]

There is garbage chain out there that is for shure .I can get a deal on some right now that is specked imperial mesurement when the contractor I know recived it It was just junk metric sizeing and verry little hard faceing on chains or bushings plus poor pin and bushing sizeing .From what I heard someone else got stuck with the mess so they passed these units on .I know that some of these old crawlers don't need the best chain but the cheapest is no bargain!!And sometimes hard to live with What is your price Lavoy. for chains and chain and grousers.Digitup.

[Lavoy]

My phone lines are screwed up, so I did not get my fax with current pricing, should know more tomorrow is they get the phone lines fixed.
Lavoy

[JD430C]

I tried to call the CAT guy today, but we ended up playing phone tag. i will try to get a hold of him tomorrow and get pricing. what i can tell u for sure is the tracks are Nexus.

andrew

[jdcook]

Well I got a second opinion on my undercarriage today by heavy Quip. He said I should be able to use my pads. They are worn some but the welded on tread is a good job and just as high as the original would be. Tigerhaze, what do you mean by worn down to the bolt heads? Do you mean when the tread is worn that low? He said I can use my front idler and top roller but that my chain should be replaced along with the bottom roller and the sprocket because my rails are too worn. Someone I was just talking to by chance today who has a loader was telling me I should be skeptical of people trying to sell me a chain even if I don’t need one. But, if two companies told me I need the chains shouldn’t I be able to trust that? Is anyone familiar with the quality of heavy Quips chains? Also any thoughts on dry verses lubed chains? He seemed to indicate that the main difference is that the lubed are quieter. If that is the only difference I recon I save the money and wear hearing protection.

Dave

[Tigerhaze]

Tigerhaze, what do you mean by worn down to the bolt heads? Do you mean when the tread is worn that low?

Yes, I was referring to the tread (which on my 2010 loader is three bars). Normally the top of the bars would be well above the top of the pad bolts; however if the bars are worn down to the same height you would start wearing out the top of the bolt heads (which is what is happening to my pad bolts right now). You had previously mentioned that some of your pad bolt heads were worn; if because they are in contact with the ground due to worn bars on the pad then I would replace the pads.

He said I can use my front idler and top roller but that my chain should be replaced along with the bottom roller and the sprocket because my rails are too worn. Someone I was just talking to by chance today who has a loader was telling me I should be skeptical of people trying to sell me a chain even if I don’t need one. But, if two companies told me I need the chains shouldn’t I be able to trust that?

It could very well be that the front and top idlers are useable while the bottom rollers are not, as the weight of the crawler is on the bottom rollers. However I would imagine that if your rails are significantly worn then all of the idlers and rollers would have at least some measurable wear. You should be able to use specs on rail height as well as pin and bushing wear for your machine that can be measured to determine whether replacement is needed; here is the links for that (courtesy of CrawlerHeaven and TractorParts):

http://www.crawlerheaven.com/wearlimits.htm
http://www.crawlerheaven.com/tracklinks_chart.htm
http://www.tractorparts.com/undercarriage.htm

Is anyone familiar with the quality of heavy Quips chains? Also any thoughts on dry verses lubed chains? He seemed to indicate that the main difference is that the lubed are quieter. If that is the only difference I recon I save the money and wear hearing protection.

Dave

My understanding (based on literature and not actual experience) is that a lubricated track system will not have internal pin and bushing wear unlike a dry seal track (thus no "snaking" or enlongation of an LTS track). LTS would still have wear over time on the outer bushing surface just like a dry track system.

I learned this from the following manual, which was made for IH crawlers but is an excellent primer for understanding all makes of undercarriage (courtesy of the TractorParts website):

http://www.tpaktopc.net/files/undrcarguide.pdf