Another new member & 450 am I crazy?

[kraigthomas]

Well I'm new & will probably need plenty of help since I don't know the first thing about crawlers...but I just bought a 1967 450 from a friend of a friend who needed some money and I need to do some work the land I just bought.

So here is the deal I gave Sunny 2500 bucks, I got an old crawler with 9700 hours, a 4-n-1 bucket up front, roll cage, and a backhoe. It starts up good, spits a bit of white smoke that goes away moments later as it warms up. It also spits some white smoke just as it goes under load for just a moment also. The tranny was rebuilt & the hoses underneath have been replaced along with a few here and there going to the bucket. The steering on the right side is weak, but still works.

Questions:
1) Was this a stupid purchase?
2) Where is the best place to get the steering clutches if an adjustment doesn't fix the weak steering?
3) How concerned do I need to be about sinking a 16,000 pound plus machine in wet sloppy GA clay? It has been raining for what seems to be weeks non-stop.
I've only used bobcats & backhoes before.

Thanks already for all the other info I've read so far! -Kraig

[shinnery]

First of all, Do you want your money back now? And where are you located? I don't know much about the 450s as I am still trying to learn a couple of 440ICD/831 crawler/loaders. But I would think a Hoe and a 4 in 1 Loader would be worth what you have in them if you had a frozen up piece of junk in between them. Check with the webmaster, Lavoy, if you need any parts, if he doesn't have them he will know where to get them. E-mail or call him direct.
Bryce

[kraigthomas]

I hope to get my money back out of it a year or so down the road after I used it casually to clear some trees, put in a driveway, and maybe dig a small pond on our property. Oh yea and dig a basement if our house ever sells so we can build.

I live about 45 minutes north of Atlanta GA.

Thanks for letting me know about Levoy...I saw that in a previous post and was trying to find www.levoy.com or the such not understanding he is the webmaster here. ***feeling a little stupid***

I'm guessing I'll try to rebuild the steering clutchs so that everything is working when I go to sell it. I've seen other 450(s) out there between 4-6 grand but they all had steering problems and the closest I've seen to what I have where everything works was a 450B for about 10 grand and it was ugly. BUT a quick web search doesn't seem like a good basis of what something is worth. I'm hoping someone has a "blue book" or something on crawlers if there is such a thing.

[wwattson]

Welcome to the forum! If you bought a crawler, you're absolutely certifiable. We're your new support group.

I did check out www.lavoy.com and I'm guessing it's not him due to the lack of crawler pictures.

As to the deal on the 450; sounds like you got a really good price. I would think you could put another $5000 into it and still have a really good machine for a reasonable amount or you could do what I did and pay the same for a 1010CA and put $7500 and two years into it and still have a stinking 1010CA when you're all done.

Bill

[digitup2]

Yes that isn't a bad deal at all.Try to get those clutches from slipping a little preventative medicine will go a long way getting them set up right .Find a 450 technical manual for the beast as soon as possible and the procedure is in there on how to set steering clutches and steering breaks setting also .If it is spitting white smoke then pull the injectors and get them rebuilt as soon as possible also .This is no big job and not expensive either .The motor will start and run better after . The reason you see white puffs of smoke is your injectors are dumping raw fuel at a certain point lugging or starting .when you rebuild them at a diesel injector shop then the injectors will mist fuel and burn it proper .The theory on recovery of a 8 ton anchor is to have a bigger crawler handy and a good cable long enough to get to it .Or you can run against all intelligence and good judgment and not worry till it sinks to above its tracks then look for that larger machine . It is a lot like 4x4 mud muckin stand on it till it drops then worry. This you will find this is more fun!!Digitup

[kraigthomas]

I've never been very good at 4x4 nor mudding as my "red neck buddies" call it. However the guy across the street has a bigger dozer, I better hope he is nice & get to know him. ***grin*** Oh yea and get a long cable.

I'm going to go pay the dude I bought the JD450 from tonight. I'm pretty sure he has the manuals to go with it.

Is it possible to rebuild the injectors myself? I've been restoring cars & motorcycles since I was about 15 and I've done the majority of the work myself. I did an automatic tranny once...I let the pros do that now. If not, I know exactly who to ask where to get them built locally.

Are the steering clutches something I should dig into right away (after reading so I have a clue) and hope I can maybe just replace the fiber disks OR is it best to replace the whole sha-bang disks,brake band, pressure plate, etc OR just let it go till it doesn't work then fix it?

I lean towards fixing everything just because that is how I am but...
I certainly don't want to go spending any more money than I need to since a year or two down the road there is about a 90% chance that I'll sell it when I've done all the work I need to do & then just get a farm tractor. I leave the 10% chance I'll get hooked on having a crawler around and then have beg the wife to keep it. We will see.

[wwattson]

I don't think rebuilding the injectors is necessarily a complicated thing to do as much as it's a matter of having the right equipment. I'm not familiar with the injectors used on the 450 but making sure they spray with the right pattern, don't leak, and lift at the correct pressure are all things that are hard to determine without an injector test stand of some sort.

My auto mechanic neighbor likes to run cleaner through injectors as a potential fix prior to pulling them out and sending them for rebuild. I can't remember the name of the stuff he uses but I know the procedure is to disconnect the supply and return from the injector pump and plug them into a bottle of this cleaner. You then run the engine on the cleaner until the bottle is empty. I'll ask him the name of the product.

Bill

[Tigerhaze]

Hi Kraig-

I think you got as heck of a deal, as the 4in1 bucket and backhoe (if in good shape) are probably worth the $2500.

Do you know which backhoe model you have? There are two types- the center of tractor models (pivot at the center of the crawler) and the slider models (backhoe boom slides left and right from the center of the crawler along a plate). The slider model would be preferable.

Getting these crawlers stuck is no fun if you don't have equipment to get them out. My 2010 crawler loader got stuck in the mud last year and I had to get my neighbor with his JD dually tractor try to get me out. He was digging two foot ruts but was able to nudge me out just enough to get some traction and get out on my own. The 450s are a little heavier so if you get them stuck you may very well need another large crawler to get you out.

I try to stay out of wet soil now- in most cases working in wet soil leaves a bigger mess than actually getting anything accomplished. You may want to leave your backhoe attachment on if you do decide to get in the slop, as you can use the backhoe tp drag or push yourself out. It also becomes handy if you slip a track and need to jack it up. The downside is that the crawler becomes cumbersome to manuever if doing loading work and puts a lot of weight on the rear of the crawler.

[kraigthomas]

The backhoe is the slider model, I don't know the numbers on it because it was getting dark. Sunny told me the piece that slides the whole unit from side to side was leaking...so I'm not sure what to do with that quite yet. It is currently off the machine but he was going to put it back on before delivering it to my property. He said they had just disconnected the leaking part, but then it would slide from side to side.

Sounds like I'll stay out of the mud since I don't have anyone I can count on to pull me out yet. I know with the backhoe I was using I made more mess than actually getting work done.

What do you mean by the crawler becoming cumbersome if doing loader work with the backhoe attached? I would thing the extra weight on the back would almost help. Then again the loader work I'll be doing is in an open pasture.

Is it fairly easy to take the backhoe on & off if I maybe make some sort of
stand so when it is off it just sits there ready to be put back on? Right now it is on the ground & I have no idea how Sunny plans on getting the thing back on the crawler.

[Tigerhaze]

Hi Kraig-

My statement about the backhoe being cumbersome during loading is based on my experience that the you have to constantly adjust the backhoe boom when moving up and down slopes and watching it if maneuvering around obstacles. If you are in an open field with little slope and no obstructions, you may want to leave it on. You should know that while the weight helps counterbalancing, it is also hard on the finals and sprokets because of the extra weight over the typical counterbalance weights recommended (about 2.5 times the weight).

The backhoe is relatively easy to detach- on mine you pull two pins from the holes at the top of the bracket and then use the backhoe boom/bucket to push the backhoe attachment off of the hooks at the bottom of the bracket. You then detach the hoses- that's it. You really don't need a stand if you can balance the backhoe attachment by propping it up with the boom/bucket.

[jdemaris]

Is it possible to rebuild the injectors myself?

There is no way to rebuild those injectors. Never has been. All the Deere 350s and 450s use Stanadyne pencil injectors. When they get worn, you buy new ones.
There is no way or procress to renew any of the worn parts. The best that can be done is to clean the nozzles with specially made nozzle-wires, clean the seat and needle, lap slightly, and reassemble. But, they have metal moving parts and like anything else, the metal wears, seats get hammered, and they just plain wear out. With other bigger injectors, you can remove and renew just the nozzle tips - but not with these.

Anybody that advertises they "rebuild" the pencil injectors is telling stories. You can clean them up , sometimes make them work better, but they will never have anywhere near the service life of new ones.

[digitup2]

Injectors are best left to someone that knows them and yes if they are too far gone they are scrap I don't do this my self and I don't let a dealership touch them either. Get a reputable Stanadyne repair shop do repair or replace injectors only .I usually keep a set around and very few dealers have someone that can even try to repair these anymore .They love to waste your time and mine while charging big bucks though .Dealers will sell new injectors too fast across the parts counter and you will not get a chance at fixing them .All injectors should be set after years of continuous service and that old Deere will run sweet and start better when treated to good injectors .It shouldn't be that expensive a job either .The best fuel economy is an older diesel and new injectors .We do our pencil injectors at 4500 to 5000 hours regardless of smoke conditions.Even on the new stuff the pencil injectors don't last quite as long as most others .Yes the Deere lovers will try to tell you different but this is one thing Deere has that needs clean fuel and if they get too much crap pushed through or a burnt tip that is all it takes .Like they say buy clean fuel and keep it clean .Digitup.