3325 winch internal oil leak, help!

[celeriac]

The drum brake in the 3325 winch on my 550 has always slipped under heavy load. I'm getting ready to put an arch on it so I thought I'd check the adjustment. When I opened the housing I was disappointed to find a pint or so of oil. The brake band is obviously soaked. Now the question is where is the leak? Even with the books I'm not getting my head wrapped around the overall layout of the winch. Is a leaky clutch the only possibility or is it possible that oil could be coming across from the other side of the winch?

I would really like to get it repaired and back in use. Any thoughts are appreciated.

[jdemaris]

Now the question is where is the leak?
I would really like to get it repaired and back in use. Any thoughts are appreciated.

They are chronic leakers from many places. That housing needs to be drained once in awhile via the pipe plug at the bottom.

There is no adjustment to tighten the brake band. Only adjustment is for free spool function.

The most common leak area is the slave cylinder for the winch brake-band. It is poor engineering and only has a single o-ring for sealing 1000 PSI.

Also, the rotary fitting where the hose attaches to the clutch pack can leak, and so can the piston IN the clutch pack. That piston is sealed by mutiple seal-rings.

Oil leaking across from the other side just about never happens.

[celeriac]

Thanks for the quick response! My guess is the clutch piston but I'll fire it up and have a look. Any thoughts on drying the brake band and clutch disks? The book says to replace them if they're oily but that's not in my budget.

[cinok]

I am not sure if this will help maybe others have other ideas. But it is common for this to happen in trucks and other equipment for brake shoes to get soaked in gear oil. I would often spray or clean them well with either an aerosol brake cleaner or a brake part parts cleaner this is never as good as replacement but it did remove some of the oil. Some old timers used to burn the stuff off with torches but I was never fond of that. make sure that the surfaces do not become glazed over after cleaning.

[Paul Buhler]

I've had good luck using a torch to bake/burn out the oil. My experience with solvents has not been good - the diluted oil soaks into the brake band and then resurfaces when in use causing it to slip. I methodically heat the brake material keeping the torch moving and use some discretion so as not to over heat one area and possibly break the glue seal. Generally I get a carbon black then charcoal grey-white surface with some modest flareup as the oil cooks out. Let it cool slowly, then clean with a sand paper to smooth out the surface and remove any ash or carbon. Low cost and I've done it multiple times on the same brake when I couldn't find all the leaks the first time around. I do this outside on a metal surface and recommend wearing some sort of face mask/filter- I don't know what I might be breathing in, and the ventilation seems like a good idea.

I did this again recently on a Gearmatic 8a winch, and it worked fine. BTW, I'm looking into getting the brake band lining replaced - it's pretty old, but in the mean time, the winch is working as it should.

Good luck. share what you decide and how it works. Paul

[jdemaris]

I've had good luck using a torch to bake/burn out the oil. My experience with solvents has not been good - the diluted oil soaks

Burning the band with a torch works fine when the winch is on a 350. We had to do many, our in the field. At that time new bands cost $175, and often a new band would slip more than a used one (until burned in).

But, those 3325 winches were also used on 440 and 540 skidders with a lot more sliders on the cable, and more trees being pulled. With them, a new dry band, properly burnt in, just barely worked.

[Paul Buhler]

John: I was responding to the question of what to do to get by with an oil soaked brake band to save some money. I've used the heating process on 350s, 450s, and 440 skidder winches sucessfully - maybe I carried a lighter load, or maybe I got lucky, but I was happy with the results, and as you said, this was usually done at the header so that we could get back to work quickly and with a minimum of fuss and expense.
BTW, I won't be commenting on how to fix the leaks or adjust the clutches - that's an area with which I've had mixed results. I know my skill limits; It doesn't keep me from trying, I just don't talk about my "non-successes".
Thanks for the discussion. Paul

[jdemaris]

John: I was responding to the question of what to do to get by with an oil soaked brake band to save some money.

I'm agreeing with you. Many do just fine after being oil soaked many times. Just takes a good cooking out the oil with a torch. The 3325 winch brake-band just barely worked even when dry. 3-4 sliders and trees hooked behind usually wasn't any big deal. But, once there were 7 or 8 hooked behind, many winches slipped -even with brand new, and dry brake bands. Deere had a go-around with it for awhile and addressed the problem with several updates. They came out with sronger springs and pre-burnished brake bands to fix the problem. The updated pair of springs was color coded so it was easy to see if they'd been changed or not. Orange as I recall.

The biggest problem with those winches was the original rotary control valve mounted on the back of the winch. They were very expensive and constantly going bad - with no way to repair. Just had to remove and replace at $400 each (and that was in the early 80s). Deere finally eliminated them and sold changeover kits to install a conventional spool type valve instead.

[celeriac]

Thanks for the suggestions. At $675 I will certainly try drying the brake band. I'm still not sure about the source of the oil leak. Evidence seems to point to the oil coming across from the drive side. The brake cylinder isn't leaking and the clutch piston looks dry but the clutch pack is soaked.

At this point I think I'll clean stuff up and reassemble it for now. Tearing into the ring and pinion side to find the seal looks like quite a task.

[celeriac]

Thought I'd try a couple pictures.

[jdemaris]

Thanks for the suggestions. At $675 I will certainly try drying the brake band. I'm still not sure about the source of the oil leak. Evidence seems to point to the oil coming across from the drive side. The brake cylinder isn't leaking and the clutch piston looks dry but the clutch pack is soaked.

At this point I think I'll clean stuff up and reassemble it for now. Tearing into the ring and pinion side to find the seal looks like quite a task.

Did you check that brake cylinder while under pressure and engaged? The only good way to check is to put the winch in free-spool position and leave it that way for quite awhile (and watch for a drip).

Taking the ring gear out the other side is easy and can be done in 10 minutes. But, I don't believe that's where your leak is - unless the case is over full.

[celeriac]

I set it to free spool for a minute or so and didn't see any drips. Once I get things cleaned up and back together we'll run it a bit to see if the leak can be found.

The puzzling part is that the clutch pack is soaked to the middle but it was basically dry between the piston and pressure plate. It looks like the shaft seal is about $15 so I may go ahead and try that to eliminate possibilities?

[celeriac]

Well I thinks the rotary coupling is the leak, or at least one. I torched the brake band as much as felt safe, cleaned it up and reinstalled it. I adjusted it per the manual then went out and hooked up to my local stationary object and crawled away. With the tractor in first and a little off idle it'll walk through the brake until the cable runs out... The brake band is smoking. So what determine good braking, this seems weak to me.

Tell me about these orange springs.