350C with bad track & drive sprocket U could shave with
350C with bad track & drive sprocket U could shave with
I have a 1979 350C crawler loader that runs Great! Track pads are smooth & the drive sprocket is sharp enough to shave with. Question is,, where do I start? I have never operated on a track before. (Plenty of work on antique tractors). Costs? What all might need replaced? I really like the machine,,,Wife says to get rid of it! Thanks for any Help! Dan
Well tracks make the crawler for sure .Now don't let the better half know but tracks are expensive .If you can do it over time check your front idler and top roller and carefully inspect the bottom rollers if they are in decent shape then sprockets and chains will make that little Deere a real work horse.check with Lavoy for prices on the chains and sprockets .I always keep the older chains as snug as possible when sprockets are badly worn and don't torque in to anything too hard or you can skip a sprocket and when they start they get to be a pain .It will take a lot to ever skip a 350 series sprocket so just keep things snug .I replace grousers with chains as that combination is not expensive look into that as well.Digitup.
One good thing about 350's is that they made a bunch of them... that opens up the opportunity to buy a good set of used chains. There are also aftermarket chains that fit your machine.
If your machine isn't down, you have the time to shop around. Always better to have options than to have it finally break. In my case, it was a worn chain link that broke on one side that "inspired" me to replace them.
I shopped around locally and found an excellent used set of Berco chains and pads for $1000. They probably had less than 100 hours on them. The way I use my 350, I'll never need to replace them again.
I enlisted the help of a couple guys that are in the heavy equipment business to "drop by" and help me swap the chains out.
No magic involved, just lots of grunt work.
Probably the most important things are to have are a good torch set (we just cut the old chains off), have a big sledge handy, and have something to move the chains around with. They're too heavy to manhandle.
The chains with pads weigh about 650 lbs per side. I weighed my old ones when I scrapped them.
We cut the old chains near the front idler. Pulled the top of the chain back. Laid the "new" chains on the ground in front of the old ones and simply pulled the crawler onto the new chains. Let the grease out of the chain tensioners, roll the chains over the tops, use a "come along" to align the pin holes, and drive the master pins in. Some touch heat helps here too. Also, its easier to drive the pins if you take the pads off near the pin holes for clearance.
Oh, and make sure you have extra beer. Both of my experts told me "2 hours max". It took closer to 4.
Haven't had my spockets off, so can't advise.
If your machine isn't down, you have the time to shop around. Always better to have options than to have it finally break. In my case, it was a worn chain link that broke on one side that "inspired" me to replace them.
I shopped around locally and found an excellent used set of Berco chains and pads for $1000. They probably had less than 100 hours on them. The way I use my 350, I'll never need to replace them again.
I enlisted the help of a couple guys that are in the heavy equipment business to "drop by" and help me swap the chains out.
No magic involved, just lots of grunt work.
Probably the most important things are to have are a good torch set (we just cut the old chains off), have a big sledge handy, and have something to move the chains around with. They're too heavy to manhandle.
The chains with pads weigh about 650 lbs per side. I weighed my old ones when I scrapped them.
We cut the old chains near the front idler. Pulled the top of the chain back. Laid the "new" chains on the ground in front of the old ones and simply pulled the crawler onto the new chains. Let the grease out of the chain tensioners, roll the chains over the tops, use a "come along" to align the pin holes, and drive the master pins in. Some touch heat helps here too. Also, its easier to drive the pins if you take the pads off near the pin holes for clearance.
Oh, and make sure you have extra beer. Both of my experts told me "2 hours max". It took closer to 4.
Haven't had my spockets off, so can't advise.
No longer posting on JDCrawlers
Hi Dan-
I have a 2010 crawler (a little older and different than your 350C), but wanted to let you know I have a post in the "Show and Tell" forum that shows putting a track back on as Ken described. I used a wheel tractor with boom to manipulate my tracks, but a small skid steer loader or another crawler would be even better.
I have pretty worn tracks and have them tight to keep them from slipping; the downside is that it puts a lot of strain on the other undercarriage parts and the final drives, especially if a loader.
Although your chains may be pretty worn and there isn't as much demand for worn 350 chains, you should be able to get some offset value by selling or scrapping them.
One other thing- I am not sure about 350C's, but my 2010 sprocket bolts require a torque of 300-400 ft-lbs or somthing like that. May want to ask someone that has done it, but a regular breaker bar may not get it and may need a torque multiplier tool to get them snugged up to that torque.
I have a 2010 crawler (a little older and different than your 350C), but wanted to let you know I have a post in the "Show and Tell" forum that shows putting a track back on as Ken described. I used a wheel tractor with boom to manipulate my tracks, but a small skid steer loader or another crawler would be even better.
I have pretty worn tracks and have them tight to keep them from slipping; the downside is that it puts a lot of strain on the other undercarriage parts and the final drives, especially if a loader.
Although your chains may be pretty worn and there isn't as much demand for worn 350 chains, you should be able to get some offset value by selling or scrapping them.
One other thing- I am not sure about 350C's, but my 2010 sprocket bolts require a torque of 300-400 ft-lbs or somthing like that. May want to ask someone that has done it, but a regular breaker bar may not get it and may need a torque multiplier tool to get them snugged up to that torque.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment
Thanks Guys!
I have been real nice to the wife & she told me to go ahead with the project! (There's a hidden motive I'm sure) I have a skid steer to help with the heavy lifting. Kinda looking for good used parts. It's a strong running machine, had surprized a few watching her topple trees.
I guess a smart 1st step would be a Manual & a good pressure hose. Then check to see whats all worn?
I guess a smart 1st step would be a Manual & a good pressure hose. Then check to see whats all worn?
In the end its really a time and cost issue. It always is.
If you had a super rare machine where good used parts were not available, I'd say sure, weld away on those sprockets. But, given the cost and availability of good used sprockets, why bother? The labor involved in taking the sprockets off and putting them back is the same.
The pins provide a bearing surface for the sprocket to engage with its teeth. Because of the way this happens, only one side of the pin wears externally from sprocket contact. If you look closely at your pins, you'll probably see that they are no longer round. Many times, IF the chain links are in good shape, the pins have never been turned before, and your internal pin wear is minimal, you can press the pins out, turn them, and press them back in to provide a new contact surface.
Back to the time and cost issue. This isn't cheap or easy. You still need to pull the tracks and take them to someone with a track press. Given your description of the grousers and sprockets, your chains are likely pretty well gone. Impossible to tell without lookng at them. Mine were worn pretty thin and one finally broke when I was turninng the crawler. I also had a number of pins that were loose in their links and they had worn oval shaped holes in the chain.
Did the guy who recommended the welding and pin turning actually look at your machine?
Here are a couple of links that may help explain some of this. The first will give you the gouge on measuring your track wear. The second is a pretty good explanation of how the tracks work.
http://www.crawlerheaven.com/wearlimits.htm
http://www.tpaktopc.net/files/undrcarguide.pdf
Hope this helps clear some things up. Others here know a lot more about this than I do and hopefully they will weigh in. For my machine , it was a "no brainer". Took off the junk, replaced it with good chain/track, and was back in action the same day. Still can't get over how much smoother the crawler runs. My kidneys and lower back are happier. And, scrapped the old chains and got enough money to take the spouse out to a nice place for dinner.
If you had a super rare machine where good used parts were not available, I'd say sure, weld away on those sprockets. But, given the cost and availability of good used sprockets, why bother? The labor involved in taking the sprockets off and putting them back is the same.
The pins provide a bearing surface for the sprocket to engage with its teeth. Because of the way this happens, only one side of the pin wears externally from sprocket contact. If you look closely at your pins, you'll probably see that they are no longer round. Many times, IF the chain links are in good shape, the pins have never been turned before, and your internal pin wear is minimal, you can press the pins out, turn them, and press them back in to provide a new contact surface.
Back to the time and cost issue. This isn't cheap or easy. You still need to pull the tracks and take them to someone with a track press. Given your description of the grousers and sprockets, your chains are likely pretty well gone. Impossible to tell without lookng at them. Mine were worn pretty thin and one finally broke when I was turninng the crawler. I also had a number of pins that were loose in their links and they had worn oval shaped holes in the chain.
Did the guy who recommended the welding and pin turning actually look at your machine?
Here are a couple of links that may help explain some of this. The first will give you the gouge on measuring your track wear. The second is a pretty good explanation of how the tracks work.
http://www.crawlerheaven.com/wearlimits.htm
http://www.tpaktopc.net/files/undrcarguide.pdf
Hope this helps clear some things up. Others here know a lot more about this than I do and hopefully they will weigh in. For my machine , it was a "no brainer". Took off the junk, replaced it with good chain/track, and was back in action the same day. Still can't get over how much smoother the crawler runs. My kidneys and lower back are happier. And, scrapped the old chains and got enough money to take the spouse out to a nice place for dinner.
No longer posting on JDCrawlers
I am not sure weld in sprocket inserts are still being made, even if they are, I don't think they made them in that small of a size to start with. Even if they are, it would be a waste of time, if they were $3/each, you are already 2/3 of the price of a new sprocket, and you haven't started welding.
By turning pins and bushings, they mean pushing out the old pins and bushings, turning them to the "unworn" side and reinstalling them. "Unworn" is a myth, as the pins and bushings wear on the backside as well. Add to that, you will do nothing to relieve the "snake" in the track. My opinion on turning pins and bushings is that it is a waste of time and on 350 rails, not sure rebushing is worth the money either unless your rails are in virtually new condition.
If you plan on owning the crawler for any length of time, new is the way to go. You can probably do rails, pads, and sprockets for $3000, maybe less depending pad style.
Lavoy
By turning pins and bushings, they mean pushing out the old pins and bushings, turning them to the "unworn" side and reinstalling them. "Unworn" is a myth, as the pins and bushings wear on the backside as well. Add to that, you will do nothing to relieve the "snake" in the track. My opinion on turning pins and bushings is that it is a waste of time and on 350 rails, not sure rebushing is worth the money either unless your rails are in virtually new condition.
If you plan on owning the crawler for any length of time, new is the way to go. You can probably do rails, pads, and sprockets for $3000, maybe less depending pad style.
Lavoy
Thanks Guys, The guy that told me about welding the sprocket had never seen my machine & was probably talking about a much larger & more expensive piece of equipment. Now comes the question,,,whats a Very Nice 1979 350C with loader & ripper worth with a newer undercarriage on it like Lavoy is talking about? I'm trying to figure out whether I should do the work or sell her cheap & let someone else do it? I'm about finished with tree & brush removal. All I need to do it burn the huge bush piles. Thanks Again,,,This site is soooo Helpful.
Almost forgot,,OneWelder,, I'm a small cattle farmer in eastern Iowa & lately a Dollar an hour does sound pretty good compared to the wages thats been made around here on selling Beef. Not being a "Good" Welder would mean I would have to hire it done also. I like the sound of buying New Replacement Parts. Thanks!!
I have only turned two set of pins and bushings they aren't worth it unless you are going to look at the crawler only and never run it .When it comes to tracks probably 55 sets I just replaced chains and pads all in one .I drive it off one set and on the next set of tracks .We average around 4000 hours on the newer Deere tracks now anyway .What more dose a guy want .I haven't worn out a set of the newest Deere tracks as yet .They are looking real good at 3g hours.Better than my Cat stuff I got stuck with some Cat crap last fall when they finally realized it was a problem Cat would only replace the chains if they took the old ones with them to bury the evidence .Don't even look at the off shore stuff unless you have done your homework and know you are getting your exact pitch needed for that machine .There is some metric sized and pitched track out there that is scrap and people are actually buying it .Used track is OK if you are not putting to many hours on it but if your sprockets are worn any more or less than the chains then you can have problems down the road on a small crawler and lose a lot of power trying to save a few bucks New sprockets and chain then rollers and idlers if needed is the way to go . Digitup.
If you are about done with the project, and have no desire to own the crawler afterwords, I would just finish the job and sell it. You could put new sprockets on it to finish the job, but the worn tracks will destroy them eventually. I do not think you will get your money back, let alone your labor if you put new undercarriage.
Lavoy
Lavoy
For some reason, thats what my wife keeps telling me to do,,sell it & let the new owner do the undercarriage work. After 30 years, I really should start to listen to her. I'm done with the loader now, any other work & clean-up I can do with my skidsteer. Any ideas on value? List the 350C on Machinery Trader, Ebay? Thanks for all the input!! Dan
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