350c reverser hows it work?

[sam]

Hi folks,
I have a question. Does a 350c reverse work different than the dry clutch models? I had the impression that it works with the steering clutches somehow.
Thanks for any info Sam

[LeonardL]

Hello Sam,
The reverser is identical for the most part in any model that it is in. There are a few little things that are different from the Straight 350 through 350D models. But, with a few minor modifications you can install one from a straight 350 into a 350C or a 350D.
The reverser used in the C and D models supply the hydraulic pressure needed to engage the clutch packs on these models. The 350C and 350D have wet or oil bath clutches and brakes.
On older dry clutch machines, there is a mechanical pressure plate that engages the clutch packs. On a few straight 350s and most 350B models, which have dry clutches, the reverser supplies hydraulic pressure to steering assist cylinders that help in steering effort at the levers.
There are a few older machines, either with or without a reverser that will have a power steering pump mounted on the front of the engine that supplies the hydraulic pressure for the steering assist cylinders.
I don't think I left any thing out but maybe some of these other guys can help with your answer. Hope this helps...

[KenP]

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[LeonardL]

Hey Ken,
The straight 350s with this configuration would be really rare and very late straight 350s. They were probably handled through "Special Customers". Deere had a few of these "Special Customers" that would try new things out in the real world before production ever came out. But... We're not supposed to know that and Deere denies ever having done it... Okay then... My guess would be right before the 350B was introduced. I've only seen two and at first glance you would swear they were 350Bs. For the most part all straight 350s will have the steering assist pump. I've also ran into one that had been converted by the owner. His steering pump had went out and he had removed it. He was then back to manual steering. Then he had to go into his reverser. When he did he installed the fitting in the side of the reverser valve body and updated his steering as well as getting his power assist back. Completely doing away with the need for a steering pump. Being the enterprising fellow that I am... I stole his idea and converted a couple machines we had. I only mentioned them because I know they are out there. Although only a few at best.

[KenP]

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[cdunn]

BUT...... the principal purpose of the reverser is to change direction of the tractor without clutching (on the fly) Right?? That information caused my jaw to drop, never heard that before. I would be very interested in knowing exactly how to use the reverser as a pump source for power assisted steering on my straight 350.

[Lavoy]

Starting with the 1010, the reverser became a hydraulic reverser meant to be shifted on the fly. In fact, on 1010 and 350's with a reverser, there is in fact no engine clutch at all, the clutch pedal causes both clutch packs to open at the same time.
Lavoy

[LeonardL]

Thanks Lavoy,
I should have explained that first I suppose. I do have a question. How similar are the reversers in the 1010s and the 350s?

[jdemaris]

Thanks Lavoy,
I should have explained that first I suppose. I do have a question. How similar are the reversers in the 1010s and the 350s?

To be technical, the two-cylinder 440 had a reverser that could be shifted "on the fly." It has two wet clutch packs, both with over-center clutches that were mechanically engage. Since all gears were "constant mesh", it could be shifted on the fly with no clash. Just wasn't supposed to shifted under any kind of load.

The 1010 was first the use what Deere called a "powershift" type of hydraulically activated clutch pack (made by Twin Disc). It was designed so you could reverse direction under full load/power. Thus the descriptive title of "powershift." Deere made 8 speed transmissions in wheel tractors named "Powershit."

The reversers from 1010s to 350Cs differed in at least these ways.

1010 used a different input shaft and different front reverser pump. Also used a special spring-loaded drive-disk that attached to the flywheel.

350 used a new style reverser pump and used a drive disk arrangement like the 1010.

350B used a new improved front input shaft with a larger center bearing which was a high failure area. Also use that God-awful spring-loaded "Torsional Isolator" assembly for a drive that attached to the flyhweel. It has resulted in many seized engines.

350C used new style pistons seals, and clutch disks. Also used a higher clutch-pack pressure because more PSI was need to also run the new wet steering clutches. This is the first series of 350s with a standard hydraulic reverser. It HAD to be there. Thus gear reverse was usually missing from the gear transmission.

350D - got the new and greatly improved solid rubber drive mechanism in front. This replaced that awful "Torsional Isolator." It is backfitted to repair 350Bs and 350Cs. Won't work on straight 350.

Note that many of the newer and better parts were used for repairs and upgrades in older reversers.

[LeonardL]

I have learned a lot here and I thank you. We had a few 350Cs that actually had the reverse in the transmission. Being a government agency... The powers that were at the time... Saw fit to ask Deere to supply these machines with this configuration. All the while, I was trying to explain to them that what they wanted was... and I can say this now... STUPID!!!!!!!! Their reasoning was that if you lost the reverser you could still have a mechanical reverse to back the machine out of the woods or away from a wild land fire........................ As I said, this is a government agency that I worked for. That's my fault, I know!
So the first time they had a stranded 350C with this mechanical reverse that wouldn't move, they came to me asking why?!!! With all my might I just stood there and looked at them!!!
Now for those of you who might not understand, the reverser is a hydraulically driven connection between the engine and the transmission. If it fails in a way that you no longer have motion in either direction, your transmission has lost its connection to the engine. So no matter what gear you put your transmission in, whether forward or reverse, you wont move! Period!
I didn't know there was so much difference between the Straight 350 reverser and the later models. I'm definitely going to have to research this.

[JWB Contracting]

Correct me if I a wrong, but I belive most dozer machines were equiped with a reverse gear in the transmission where are loader machines were not.

The reason being is that when you strap a deere winch on the back, if you do not have a reverse gear then you cannot winch in and back up at the same time (reverser in forward, transmission in reverse). The winch only works if the reverser is in the forward direction.

[CatD8RII]

Not to get too off topic here but figure its worth mentioning. There are 3 powershaft configurations for a 350C. The first one is a "plain jane" so to speak, no reverse and auxiliary drive. The second option is a "winch drive" it has reverse gear, but its output runs all the time that the transmission is driven from the reverser. The last option is a PTO option, it has a powershaft that can be disengaged from its output shaft with a fork and lever , that if present is located near the transmission dipstick. What changes between the options is that both the winch and PTO have a second+reverse speed gear on the pinion shaft. Regular machines have just a second speed gear. The PTO and winch drive machines also have a gear on the powershaft to mesh with the output shafts gear.

[jdemaris]

Correct me if I a wrong, but I belive most dozer machines were equiped with a reverse gear in the transmission where are loader machines were not.

We were selling 350Cs new when the reverse in the gear trans disappeared. Some had it and some did not. We sold just about all dozers. 350C crawler loader was not popular and considered underpowered for loader work. I suspect Deere simply used up exisiting parts that included reverse and then built without.

As to the loss of ability to winch while going backwards? I never heard a complaint about that one. Guess I never met a person who wanted to winch in while traveling backwards. Free spool not working was usually the biggest problem. That and the brake bands not holding when towing.

[Paul Buhler]

Guess I never met a person who wanted to winch in while traveling backwards.

The inability of 350s to do this was one reason loggers in my area generally preferrred 450s. When working steep, ledgy terrain that lack logging roads, it is often necessary to get to higher ground to build a skid road "down hill". It was easier on the machine and the operator to self assist by winching while backing up the hill to get to a good spot to build the road. I'm not the mechanic that others are, but machine choices are often made by perceived strengths and weaknesses even if the perception is incorrect. We came to hate the reverser rattle in the 350 and disliked it more when we had to rebuild one in the middle of nowhere when it failed.
Just sharing my experiences.

BTW, Nice to see you on the board again John - I always learn something useful when you post.
Paul

[jdemaris]

Correct me if I a wrong, but I belive most dozer machines were equiped with a reverse gear in the transmission where are loader machines were not.

Here the trans specs from Deere dealer data-sheets over the years. Note Deere only mentions gear reverse up through the B series.









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