Can the engine flywheel clutch from a 450 work in a 450b ?

[Scottyb]

I recently purchased a 450 loader with a poor undercarriage as a parts machine for my 450b dozer that only needed a new crank shaft and a push rod and re assembly to be complete. I bought the dozer with the engine in boxes and now discovered that the engine flywheel clutch is missing, and I see on the parts look up that they have different clutch components.
Will the clutch work regardless from the 450?
It would sure be nice if it did as I will just take the complete engine and drop it into the dozer, clutch and all.
This parts machine has a lot of blow by and I assume a set of rings will correct that problem. It runs fine and sounds good, but, it does smoke a lot!

Anything else cause blow by except rings?

All help here is greatly appreciated.

Scottyb

[JWB Contracting]

I just ran into this same issue with an engine I sold out of a 450B loader for use in a straight 450 loader. The guys core engine and the for sale engine had slightly different looking pressure plates. We did some measuring and determined that the replacement engine clutch was 1/4 difference to the clutch fingers. The B series clutch looked slightly larger.

We recommended for the purchaser to buy a technical manual and go thru the clutch adjustment procedure. First, adjust the free play on the dry clutch and then second, adjust the hydrualic clutch. I know that it worked as now they know as they have asked for some advice on fixing a steering clutch.

I would just be careful when installing it as the engine should fit in without alot of force, meaning that the clutch is being activiated by the throw out bearing during the installation.

You may not need to do anything to your engine except run it. Alot of times a deere engine will clean up if it has been siting along time. Do you know if the previous owner of the 450 loader was using it regularily, if so you might just want to do a dry fit to adjust the throw out bearing and then pull it out and re-ring it, check the head, etc.

What we would all like to know is if your newly aquired 350 is operational??

[vestor_guy]

I overhauled a 450 that had a lot of blowby. I was told by a mechanic to be sure and check the liners. When you pull them, there are a few o-rings you have to replace but the important item is to look for cavitation erosion. All 4 liners in my 450 had pitting from cavitation and two of them were deep. The non turbo liners are not as thick as the turbo versions.

[tjdub]

Anything else cause blow by except rings?

When the engine gets warm does it stop smoking?

My 450 smokes like crazy after a cold start, but it clears right up once the engine starts to get warm. When I first bought it, it always smoked even when warm, but after adjusting the advance timing screw on the injector pump a little, that cleared up.

I've never tested the compression in my 450, but it starts very nicely when cold, so I don't think the smoke is from worn rings, I'm thinking it's more from from oil seeping down through the valve guides.

[vestor_guy]

tjdub, the comment was for blow by and not exhaust smoke. Blow by will put a lot of smoke out of the vent pipe.

[tjdub]

tjdub, the comment was for blow by and not exhaust smoke. Blow by will put a lot of smoke out of the vent pipe.

Not saying it's what Scottyb meant (or that the terminology is right), but in my experience people will often say an engine has blow-by if it burns oil and smokes even if there is no exhaust coming out of the crankcase.

[Scottyb]

tjdub, vestor_guy

Thanks for the feedback...

It smokes from the vent, more and more as it warms up and after a half an hour it is hard to drive without getting gassed! Good advice though as I would like to avoid taking it apart if the problem can be solved otherwise.
I have another head off a 450b I could install to see if it is the guides, and I will do a compresson test this weekend just to see what I get.

Jason,
This 450 loader I recently purchased is fully operational. I tried some digging and the left side steering clutch does not have much drive and the track stops turning fairly easily. The right side pulls fine. I tried adjusting without any improvement however the seller told me he had recently replaced the brake band on that side so perhaps something was not installed properly.
It is complete except for teeth on the bucket and all the loader pins and etc are nice and tight. The chains however are worn and the chain pins are same. Pads are fine. No ROPS. Someone did a lot of building up on the sprockets however and they look ok, for a do it yourself repair.
The two track idlers are worn right down and I have not yet inspected the rollers.
It shifts good and all the gears are working normal. One drip at the ram seals on the right side bucket. They used this loader every summer for the 15 years they owned it.

My 450b Dozer has a decent undercarriage but, as it was bought with the engine out, and until I put one in, I wont really know what have. So I thought that It would make sence to take the one out of this new 450, do some rebuilding and put it into the b and see how it works.
I took this new 450 out to my brothers acerage and forgot to take photos or I would have attached some.
I will be putting the back hoe back on the 350b for digging stumps this summer, and, by winter I have to decide where to put the winch, as I will need one for sure for logging.
The straight 350 that I got running needs both steering clutches fixed, I have a little drive on the right side and none on the left. The pads are hitting on the loader frame when it is lowered and may have caused the problem, as they used it this way for a while. When I get out there I will measure to see if they put 450 parts on this 350? At any rate the 350 wont be useable for a time as I have a new store to open this summer.
You asked me some months back if I was going to become a collector and I thought that was pretty funny.... but now I have 4!
My friends think I have lost it.
I'm having fun that is for sure.
My goal is to have two nice crawlers, one with a winch and one with a backhoe.


Scott

[vestor_guy]

Worn guides are not going to put smoke out the vent. My guess is worn or broken rings. Since the engine probably has a lot of time on it, I would recommend a complete overhaul. Do it yourself and it is not that expensive.

[Scottyb]

I think I will plan to start the overhaul. The engine will come out and I will pull it apart and see what's inside. I will let you all know what I find.

Thanks everyone....

Scott

[Mariner]

Hi,

An engine rebuild is not too bad or expensive - prividing you use after market parts. I used JD parts on my engine and paid about three times what I could have bought the same parts for, elsewhere.

The actual job is not too hard and the engine can be out in a few hours if you have enough equipment. If rebuilding make sure that the balancer shafts (there are two) bearings are renewed as well as the camshaft bearings - a lot depends on the hours and condition of what you have to work with.

On my engine the liners all showed signs of cavitation pitting and the original "O-rings" were leaking too. It take just a bit more time to do things right and never look back.

Do you kow what your injector fuel pump is like - could be it needs work as well. Part can be bought from a company in Texas, for a very reasonable price. You should also check the fuel pump drive shaft for wear - the drive tang has a habit of wearing and there is a limit on what is acceptable and then a new shaft is needed.

Take you time and do it right the first time, if you can. Nothing worse than going back and having to do the same job over again, for the sake of a few dollars.

Good luck and please let us know how you make out - we can all learn something.

Thanks

mariner

[Scottyb]

I am looking forward to getting that engine out and stripping it down.

Before I unloaded it from my trailer I gave it a good pressure cleaning ($130.00 at the truck wash and when I was done all the dirt and grease was on me!) I have a bobcat with forks that will lift the engine out and I will bring it to my garage in the city for the rebuild.

Good news (I think) on the missing clutch, the seller got back to me that he has recovered it and the pressure plate from the now melted snowbank where they had taken the engine out. He cautioned me that the throw out bearing had seized and wore the fingers down badly so I am not sure if it will be of any value once I retrive it.

He also recovered a missing floor plate and that part will help make the drive to get the clutch worthwhile. (180 miles return, but I have a favorate uncle out that way so I will pay him a visit)

Has anyone repaired clutch fingers or is it going to need replaceing?

Still missing from the dozer are the engine side covers and the two protection pipes that go from the top of the engine front cover to the top of the Rops. Otherwise I think that it is complete.

Scott

[tjdub]

Has anyone repaired clutch fingers or is it going to need replaceing?

My guess is it would be cheaper to just buy a new clutch plate than to try to get the old one repaired. I've never dealt with this place, but it was the first thing that came up when I searched for the part number:

http://www.tractorclutchzone.com/pressu ... 24668.html