JD 450B Dozer Steering

[sancobg]

Hi All,

New to the forum and new owner of an older JD 450B with 6 Way Blade. Undercarriage is 80% and runs really well. Pedal brakes are great. Start to have issues when trans/steering get warm/hot.

Have a few issues I would like some assistance with;

1. When dozing forward and come to a stop, shift to reverse, sometimes the trans will engage and at other times it will not move in forward or reverse. Have to play with steering levers and and engine RPM's to get the trans engaged. Any suggestions?

2. The right steering clutch seems to work well, the left requires 2 hands and a hard pull to make a turn. Adjustment or time to dig in and replace the pack??

3. Don't have a manual yet, but on the left hand side is a lever with 1-2 positions. Frozen in#2 position. Believe this is a shift lever for the trans. Your thoughts?

4. On right hand side is a "un-marked " lever that is free. The dozer has a PTO. Is this to engage and disengage the PTO?

This is my first ownership of a JD product, however I have had Case, Cat, International, JCB and O & K equipment. If I need to dig into this JD 450B I am prepared to do whatever it takes.

Paul
USMC 1965 Vietnam Vet

[jtrichard]

welcome Paul the left steering problem is most likely oil on the brake band or the clutch pack is oil soaked and swollen up and not releasing ....if the pack is not oil soaked and one or both the tracks don't stop in a heavy push then your clutch packs should be good

[Scottyb]

Paul, another welcome. You have posted this on the early models section and you would get more attention if on the late models section as the 450 series is a late model on this forum.
Regardless, I am not an expert but I have 450s and I will help where I can. Also I am assuming that you have just recently aquired this dozer and are just getting familiar with it.
question 1
Not exactly sure why you have this problem but here is a few facts about your crawler. It has a clutch between the engine and reverser/transmission. The hydraulically driven clutches in the reverser allow you to go from forward to reverse without the use of the engine clutch and, have a hi lo range in forward gears.(reverser has its own hyd. pump internally) Your issue with not moving sometimes, is possibly with the operation/adjustment of the reverser. otherwise all three, reverser, steering clutches, as well as the engine clutch need to be engaged to make it move. you will need to determine where your problem exists. When it does drive, will it dig without problems?
Q2
as you are likely aware, when you pull on a steering lever first it releases the steering clutch for that side and then a further pull applies a brake on the same side. Your problem could be the clutch is not releasing or, the brake is not applying. A test is if you pull back on both levers (steering) at the same time, does the crawler stop? If it does it suggests that the clutches are both releasing. If this is the case and it wont turn then one or both of the brakes are not working. Usually this is an easy adjustment as explained in the manuals. The directions must be followed exactly as explained or it is a mess.
question 3
You are going to need that service manual, get the operators as well however the parts diagrams are available for free from deere on another place on their website. Order them on line from deer in a digital copy and you will have it the same day. I dont know what to advise you on this one as far as this lever. I need more info. Is the reverser working for you as in forward, reverse and hi-lo in forward gears? Is it stuck in second gear?
4
Right hand lever(on the right side of the dozer control lever) is for attachments like a hoe or ripper etc. The pto lever is likely on the floor just left of the brake. I have a 450b with a pto but it does not have a pto lever. Likely on mine the pto shaft was added after it was built and they did not install the lever at the factory. The manual shows one but I just do not have it.
Scott

[Tigerhaze]

I agree with what ScottyB said, and I have one important clarification. As mentioned you have the HLR transmission. Unfortunately HLRs are known when worn to have major internal issues which allow them to work fine when cold but stop moving or have slippage issues when they get warm. There are a lot of threads/posts about this so i would suggest reading them (many of them are by Digitup2) and see if your symptoms match what you read. Those threads will also have the diagnostics (hydraulic pressure tests) you will need to do to see if you have a problem there.

I would still do the checks on the steering clutches/brakes that ScottyB mentioned because they can sometimes seem like a tranmission issue. it is also possible that the shift lever is hanging up- I have had that problem where the HLR floor shifter on my 2010 is getting sloppy so doesn't always shift the first try. However I don't have the issues when HLR is warm. It may be that is actually your issue but wanted to point out the worst case scenario.

[sancobg]

Thanks for the welcome and the replies.

I just wanted to get an idea of what I was in for. Not concerned about the work, just the process of approaching the adjustments/repairs.

I somewhat agree that the clutch release may be an issue. When dozing with a full blade of dirt, tracks spinning and either lift the blade or shift to reverse, she stops moving. I can feel the release points in the steering levers ass I rev the engine to get it engaged to move. Often, it will move very slowly at first and then comes up to speed.

As noted by Scottyb, I can feel the steering disengage on both sides with a few inches of lever movement. The right is dead on, locks up and turns immediately. The left is different, After disengaging the steering clutch, it takes both hands to pull the lever to get minimal braking.

If the lever on the left hand side is the 1-2 range shift fot the trans, it is definitively stuck in 2nd. The forward/reverse shifter is very sensitive, especially in forward. Fine line to get it engaged,

I have a lot of work for this little dozer and I would like to get it working correctly and be hassle fre while I'm doing it.

I agree with you on possible worn.wobbled-out control linkages. I will pull them and re-bush if necessary to get then like the original. I have access to a full machine shop to ease the pain.

Thanks for the help & info

Paul

[Tigerhaze]

One more thing to point out- you may not get all the replies you would otherwise get about your 450 posting in the early forum (pre-450). The late model guys post in the other forum and may not always check here.

[sancobg]

Is it possible for an Aministrator to move this thread to the proper location??

Paul

[Scottyb]

Paul, that left brake just needs a little adjustment assuming that the lining is ok and the parts are all together. I Bought my 450b loader for a very good price because the owner passed and the widow lent it to the local landfill. The guys there could not get the right side clutch/brake to work and concluded it was worn out. I messed with it for a while without luck then, once home and with the new manual in hand, in an hour It was working like new with just the proper adjustment. I had to go back and re do the adjustment twice the first summer when it was acting exactly as you describe yours. Working well now, although I have not put many hours on this unit since.

Also check carefully all of the frame and crossmember bolts for loose and missing. You might have some movement between the parts of that dozer and it might cause the linkages (reverser etc) to move on their own when lifting, pushing etc.

correction from my earlier post, pto without the pto shift lever is on mt 450c. no shaft yet installed on my B.

Scott

[Lavoy]

Thread has been moved.
Lavoy