Another fuel problem 450C trackloader

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boaterri
40C crawler
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Another fuel problem 450C trackloader

Post by boaterri » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:46 pm

Hello all:

Was working my 450C track loader and as I moved out of the work area to dump my bucket the engine lost power. Dumped the bucket and could barely move in first low under it's own power. Checked all the usual suspects. Fuel in tank, yes, fuel filter, less than 50 hours, looks clean, all connections tight and no drips, check. Changed the fuel filter just in case, no improvement. Blew out the line from fuel tank to transfer pump with compressed air, bled filter, no improvement.

My neighbor is a heavy equipment mechanic/operator and we determined that it was probably the fuel transfer pump. I got a replacement from ebay installed it and the engine will idle but that's all. Not enough power to move machine. This is obviously not a genuine JD part but looks to be a generic "fits all (not)" fuel pump with the correct bolt pattern. Pump box had a sticker indicating that it was a generic replacement for JD350, 450 and other machines. This pump cross referenced from the JD part number but the arm that the cam pushes on is a good deal shorter that the original part.

When I blow into the original fuel pump on the tank side air flows freely, if I suck on that port I get some leakage which suggests to me that one or both of the check valves is shot.

Any thoughts on where the best place to get a genuine John Deere fuel pump? Anything we have missed in our trouble shooting?

Rick

B Town
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Re: Another fuel problem 450C trackloader

Post by B Town » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:40 pm

Make sure the tank vent is clear. A plugged vent tube doesn't have exactly the same symptoms you have, but I'm not sure what else to suggest. Bruce

boaterri
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Re: Another fuel problem 450C trackloader

Post by boaterri » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:45 pm

Good thought, one troubleshooting step was to run machine with fuel tank cap removed.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Rick

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DrLoch
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Re: Another fuel problem 450C trackloader

Post by DrLoch » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:17 am

Remove the side inspection windows from the injector pump to see if you have what is referred as mouse turds. If that is the case the pellathane ring on the governor of the injector pump is coming apart and blocking the injector pump drain check valve. If you remove the check valve and are able to get full power you will know for sure. Search mouse turds, here is one viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10004&p=54644&hilit ... rds#p54644
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boaterri
40C crawler
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Location: Florida

Re: Another fuel problem 450C trackloader

Post by boaterri » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:44 pm

Looked at fuel injector pump today. The pump is a Roosta Master #108435MD (as best I can read from the metal tag on the pump. In my search for "Mouse Turds" I removed the small rectangular inspection port, center bottom, held on by two slotted machine screws. The chamber behind the cover was filled with diesel fuel. No other inspection port was obvious. Attached (I hope) are 2 photos of the pump.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Rick

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: Another fuel problem 450C trackloader

Post by Stan Disbrow » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:38 am

Hi,

It surely sounds like the fuel return is blocked and the IP is overloading with fuel. That barely running symptom is telling me that. And, the usual source of return line blockage is that ring disintegrating inside the IP.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: 1958 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350 & Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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DrLoch
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Re: Another fuel problem 450C trackloader

Post by DrLoch » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:38 am

Try removing the drain line and the fitting with the check valve on the top of the IP. If there is any blockage from the ring it will get lodged there
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Scottyb
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Re: Another fuel problem 450C trackloader

Post by Scottyb » Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:28 am

There is possibly a screen at the bottom of your fuel tank. Where the fuel line attaches to the tank. Also a shut off valve there usually. Blow compressed air back into the tank from the line where it connects to the fuel pump. This is the simple solution most of the time for me, I hope it is not your injector pump.
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boaterri
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Re: Another fuel problem 450C trackloader

Post by boaterri » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:34 am

Scotty:
I did the air compressor trick on the line to the fuel tank, no improvement.

How difficult is a remove/replace and repair for the self destructing, mouse turd producing governor ring?
There is no rebuild outfit near me (Bahamas). Are rebuilt injector pumps available for less than a king's ransom?

Unfortunately, I am off to work for 2 weeks and will not be back to the machine until the 3rd of July.

Rick

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DBaker98
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Re: Another fuel problem 450C trackloader

Post by DBaker98 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:08 pm

Had my 450c IP rebuilt and cost 700.00. The man said he did 3 a day...... I am in the wrong business
1978 450c loader

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gregjo1948
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Re: Another fuel problem 450C trackloader

Post by gregjo1948 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:09 am

The valve that DrLoch mentioned is, if I remember, a one way (check) valve. It's relatively inexpensive and could very likely be your problem. That tiny valve can disable your multi ton machine.
JD 350B diesel w/rops & 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 highcrop, International 404 utility, International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller

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DrLoch
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Re: Another fuel problem 450C trackloader

Post by DrLoch » Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:41 am

I rebuilt mine and replaced the dampner ring assembly with the updated dampner assembly, Stanadyne PN 29111. Got my parts from usdiesel.com, you will need to find or make the tool to remove the Cam advance screw. you need what is called a Bristol Wrench, Stanadyne PN 15499, got it from mgs4u.com, PN S-291-6 or 6L. Other parts;
1 Seal Kit Stanadyne #24371
3 Shaft Seal Stanadyne 10453
1 JDB Pilot Tube (Bushing) Stanadyne #16320

Pump Vanes Stanadyne #37268
Complete Set of vanes Stanadyne 7123-19
1 Liner Stanadyne 16753

1 Housing Pr Regulator Valve Stanadyne #15830, the check valve on top that gets plugged up with debris/mouse turds
1 Dampner ring Update "EIC" Stanadyne #29111
1 Drive Shaft Seal Install Tool Stanadyne #13371

I got extra shaft seals because it is easy to tear one up when reinstalling the pump again if you don't have the drive shaft install tool, although I didn't.
The shaft stays when you remove the pump and it has the 2 opposing seals.

I would also recommend you get the engine up to #1 @ TDC on the compression/inject cycle before removing the pump, mark the IP housing and the mount to make sure the timing remains the same.

To get #1 up to TDC of the compression/inject cycle with the timing window removed rotate the engine CCW as viewed from the flywheel end.
Looking through the timing window look for timing line on the governor weight to come into view, line the line up with the one on the stationary cam. At that point you should be able to insert the timing pin into the flywheel on the IP side of the engine. You are now at TDC of the compression/inject cycle. Now remove the lines and the pump mounting nuts, the pump will slide rearward off of the shaft, as I said the shaft stays. It may take some effort if the seals are hard and have worn grooves into the pilot tube.

Good luck and let us know how you made out.
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boaterri
40C crawler
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Location: Florida

Re: Another fuel problem 450C trackloader

Post by boaterri » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:29 am

Thanks for the info guys. I will be back to the machine on 3 July. and will be continuing the investigation then.


Rick

boaterri
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Re: Another fuel problem 450C trackloader

Post by boaterri » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:27 pm

DBaker98:

What is the contact information for the gentleman that rebuilt your pump?

Rick

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