450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

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Will1020
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Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Will1020 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:11 pm

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5053 ... 4y_jpg.htm
I'll post more pics later and updates but I want to get the drive shaft out. Does anyone know thread size? It's kinda Rusty and I don't want to mess it up... The clutch is hanging I just need to remove the shaft.

Will1020
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Location: Stewartstown PA

Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Will1020 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:47 pm

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5053 ... fj_jpg.htm

I'll still post more later on how too but I got it. I used 5/16 all thread. Clamped vise grips to it and smacked it with a hammer! Suitable red neck puller!

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Lavoy
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Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Lavoy » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:16 am

Oh man, are they rusty!
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

Will1020
420 crawler
420 crawler
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:06 pm
Location: Stewartstown PA

Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Will1020 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:38 am

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5054 ... 98_jpg.htm
In order to get to the clucth covers there is a steal plate running over them and supporting the saddle compartments and fuel tank. You have to take the easiest and lightest approach for me was to remove the fuel tank and unbolt the left compartment/battery box. Then you can remove it. My hydro lines on left side are super tight. So I can't get them off yet.

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5054 ... e4_jpg.htm
Don't forget this!!!!!!!! I'm thinking it could get expensive braking something in the transmission....

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5054 ... nn_jpg.htm
We are in! So far really not bad. It's scary looking to start but honestly not bad once started. Hopefully it'll go together the same!

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5054 ... ps_jpg.htm
You can see how some one was monkeying around trying to get it free

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5054 ... ld_jpg.htm
There are two half Moon woodruff keys holding/aligning linkages. Simple tap on one end of them in to the shaft and the other end pops right out. Removing this stuff pretty straight forward. Putting back together going to be tricky I bet. Tech manual really not alot of help. Not like a Haines manual etc.

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5054 ... t3_jpg.htm
There's a big Allen plug on outside of unit at the final drive assembly. Remove it and line up the locking/alignment bolt on the brake drum. I believe it's a 1/2 inch socket. Unbolt it.

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5054 ... jj_jpg.htm
http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5054 ... 8a_jpg.htm

Remove the final drive by supporting the clutch drum. I used a small chain in the brake band end pieces with a come along attached to the Roll cage above. Worked perfectly. Final drive came out fairly easily with some wiggling.

The input shaft has to be removed too. 5/16 all thread extended to outside of crawler. Put a nut on it. Clamp vise grips behind it and smacked with hammer. Came right out.

Will1020
420 crawler
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Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:06 pm
Location: Stewartstown PA

Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Will1020 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:28 pm

So I think my clutches have been replaced. They are extremely Rusty but there is no wear on the fibers. There is no wear line or anything. Hmm. The pressure plate is the same way.

I need your guys help on deciding what's worn and what's scrap. Like the front roller. How do I measure? What is the measurements? I have a technical manual from JD but it says nothing. It also tells me how to rebuild the pressure plate but gives no specs. Only a speacial tool. Any thoughts?

Jim B
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Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Jim B » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:15 am

There was an inspection tool (JD268A) years ago that allowed for a quick check of track components. As far as I can find out those are no longer made. I believe John Deere may now have a full track inspection kit that covers all their machines now instead the old gauges (JD266, JD267, JD268A) for different crawlers up through some of the 450 models, but I don't have a part number and expect it might carry a hefty price if it covers all current track machines.

You mentioned front roller, I am thinking you are referring to the front idler, so I am looking at that. The wear limits should be in your technical manual. In looking at a 450B technical manual it looks like a new front idler measures 0.76" from the outer rim of the idler's center flange to the flanges where the chain rails run. They consider 0.91" as 100% worn. This is measured with a depth gauge, or similar, (straight edge across the center flange and measure down to both rail flanges). Stan has a post in the FAQ section on "Understanding Undercarriage". It is a Dresser document but the basics and measurement methods are basic to most all track machines. It shows measuring front idler flanges. It is good info and will help you with making the measurements on any crawler.

You can get dimensions for some parts from the on line John Deere partsbooks. I have registered with my local dealers so I can check inventory and prices, I don't know if that makes a difference in what one sees on a given page or not. Dimensions and specs don't show for every part.

I believe Lavoy has the special tool for setting the fingers on the steering clutches and the special tool for setting the engine clutch as well.

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Stan Disbrow » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:58 am

Hi,

I think Lavoy has remanufactured the track gauges as well.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

Will1020
420 crawler
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Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:06 pm
Location: Stewartstown PA

Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Will1020 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:59 am

All good info thanks. I just pm Lavoy on that and a tech manual/service manual. You mentioned info that you got out of yours. I have gone through my manual several time and that info is not in it. There must be another manual. My manual has a big TM on cover . Is that the one I need? It's only 3/4 thick maybe

Jim B
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Location: western Maine

Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Jim B » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:44 pm

There should be a number along with the TM on your manual. The 450B manual I found on line is TM1033; 332 pages. I found the idler wear spec under Miscellaneous Components, Tracks, Specifications. Page 38 of the Dresser undercarriage document a drawing of measuring an idler, same method shown in a picture in my 450E TM, I didn't see a photo of measuring an idler in the 450B TM.


The 450B manual I found was at: https://archive.org/details/John_Deere_ ... ual_TM1033 . That is the manual number that shows up on the John Deere technical publications site for a 450 b. My 450E manual has basically the same specs (within a few thousands) as the TM1033 manual.

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Stan Disbrow » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:26 pm

Hi,

Manuals are in sections. There are two forms of manuals, Customer and Dealer. If you go to the JD manual site and order, you will get a customer manual. Dealer manuals only went to dealers, but often times they show up on eBay and such. Some say Dealer Copy and some don't.

The customer manual is stand-alone. It contains everything for a particular machine. In this case, a 450B. The dealer version is meant to go into a large holder, usually along the back side of workbench. These come in smaller versions to cover the changes between models. In this case, the 450B manual would not contain all of duplicate info from the straight 450 manual. The thinking is that the shop didn't need their manuals to take up more space than needed and they would already have the older manual.

Maybe you picked up one of the thinner dealer 450B manuals. Or, someone just plain lost some sections if it is a loose leaf variant. There is a matching 4-post binder but most folks don't spend the bucks for one. Unless you hole-punch each sheet, they don't go in a cheap 3-ring binder. Easy to lose sections if they are kept loose.

I have that issue with my older 420 manual. There is a lot missing. It is found in the 40 manual, and in the M manual. Both earlier versions of the machine. Additionally, my 420 is very late production and has the newer reverser. So, I also need the 440 manual. These came from our family dealership when it shut down around 1982. I think all the older manuals were like this, but by the time the 450 came out they offered the two types.

I put together a list of customer manuals in the FAQ, and list most machines and their stand-alone service (and later technical) manuals and parts catalogs by number.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

Will1020
420 crawler
420 crawler
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:06 pm
Location: Stewartstown PA

Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Will1020 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:09 pm

Hey guys got side tracked. My friend is machining some parts for me in the mean time. The weather's been kinda rough here in PA. Endless Winter. I'll be back on her soon for sure. I got so much that needs done

Will1020
420 crawler
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Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:06 pm
Location: Stewartstown PA

Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Will1020 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:36 pm

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5170 ... 5s_jpg.htm
http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5170 ... 7u_jpg.htm
http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5170 ... 98_jpg.htm
Ok, I got to work on my crawler the last couple days again. So I finally got my spring compressed and off. I then used a engine hoist to remove the frame/rails. I then set the sub assembly on saw horses and proceeded to remove the rock gaurds as expected lots of heat and time but I got them and the lower rollers off. Today we drilled and tapped all holes that were unusable. I cut the blocks off that were welded on the rails to keep the assembly from shifting front n rear. I then filled in the area with well to build it back up. Then I'll grind smoothe and restart the assembly process. I do have two questions.
1. It looks like there are alignment bolts or something that locate and possibly attached the rail assembly to the pedestal foot. It would come from underneath and be approximately 3/8 thread. Does anyone familiar with this it's not in my books.
2. So I have a lot of wear in that cross bar and tube assembly on the back of the assembly. So I'm thinking outside the box. I'm thinking I will put the assembly back on hopefully utilizing that alignment bolt thing then rtv silicone the inner and outer sides of that cross bar to tube assembly. Then drill two 3/8 holes in the top of that tube assembly. Then use liquid metal or something of that nature and a grout bag/cake icing type bag and fill that tube up. Once dried it would eliminate any play between the two making everything nice and solid. Any thoughts?

Will1020
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Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:06 pm
Location: Stewartstown PA

Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Will1020 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:45 am

I need a track roller for this machine. I'm trying to find used part if possible. Looked on this site but didn't see parts area. I'm sure there is some where. Can anyone help? Original part number AT32573

Jim B
440 crawler
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Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Jim B » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:06 pm

You can call Lavoy at 701-361-1006 during the day or email him at: postmaster@jdcrawlers.com with your needs.

Will1020
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Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:06 pm
Location: Stewartstown PA

Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Will1020 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:11 pm

Thank you! Found new old stock at a dealer in Connecticut. They wanted to get rid of it $125.00 and it's on its way! I'll refer to that number in the future however...

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