555 exhaust manifold project

[ngilles]

Hi guys,
Well, I'm on the next phase of the 555 project. I bought it with a broken "ear" on the very front of the exhaust manifold. Needless to say, very loud! The seller had the new bolts, manifold and gaskets. I posted pics of the bolt heads earlier, got lots of great ideas on how to get it off. Got the manifold off yesterday, heated each of the bolts 3 different times. I got the bolts off then ground off the bolt stubs that were in the earlier pics. Got the manifold off and today I went after the "stubs" that were left after the manifold came off. I had 5 studs left to heat, wiggle, heat, wiggle, rinse and repeat! Got them all out now. You were exactly right, patience saved drilling and easy out work! I also used an old farmer trick, heat red hot and touch a candle to it. Apparently, the threads wick in the wax and it lubes a little. Many soakings in Kroil too!

Some pics of the job https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TQg20 ... 4TEcX_Y3Og
Check out how little was left of those studs!

The problem I have now is now to separate the old manifold from the "hot" side of the turbo housing. It was bolted to the exhaust manifold but has no bolt heads or nuts at all. Not sure how to proceed. I'd like to save it but it's looking like I"m going to have to find a rebuilt or new turbo assembly

Any ideas how to separate the hot side turbo housing from the top of the exhaust manifold? I've heated several times, tapped a lot with a hammer, trying not to bust anything. My Grampa patience in the shop got used up on all the studs I removed LOL.

I hope you all had a great Christmas, I'm getting some shop time in!
Nick

[Lu47Dan]

I would use a pencil grinder to clean the end of the bolt off and see if there might still be part of the head left. It does not take much to prevent the castings from seperating.
You can use a burr or a grinding wheel to do that but good burr is faster.
Happy New Year.
Dan.

[Jim B]

Lu47Dan posted a good point and method. Be sure all the head is gone, then heat, wax and Kroil as you did with the bolt stubs in the engine. If that doesn’t work, since the manifold is no good, you might take an abrasive blade, or grinder, and make cuts into the manifold flange that would go through the bolts. Make the cuts close to the manifold flange face but stay clear of the flange faces of the housings you want to save. If you are close on the cuts you might be able to break the manifold flange away from the turbo side. Then you could carefully grind the last of the manifold flange off the turbo, to get rid of the last of the bolt in the manifold flange. Then you only have to get the stubs out of the turbo housing holes.

Patience, patience, patience. Hang in there, its worked for you so far.

Good luck,
Jim

[ngilles]

Dan,
I'm really hoping they're held together with bolts/nuts not threaded bolts into holes in the castings. If I could grind off the bolt and nut ends on each side of the castings, I might get them loose. I think the grinding creates heat and vibrations that help loosen things. I've tried to log into the John Deere online parts catalog site to get a picture of the whole thing, but they seem to be down right now so I'm not yet sure if they were bolts threaded into holes or if they just used nuts to sandwich things together.

Next phase of the project

[ngilles]

Thanks for the idea Jim. I simply don't have enough of the bolt head or nut end to tell which way the bolts went (if bolts went up through or down through) You don't know if they were threaded in do you? I'm really hoping for nuts/bolts not blind holes!

[Jim B]

Parts catalog shows 7 each, 3/8" bolts with nuts some with washers, all through bolted, none threaded into a flange. 4 each hold the turbo with flat washers under the bolt heads, 3 each with lock washers at the nuts to hold the exhaust elbow, all the nuts on the bottom for both - as shown in the book but how they are in could be either way if someone has ever worked on it.

[Jim B]

I'm sure the elbow is through bolted. I just checked and my 450E has the same manifold, elbow, and adapter fitting, turbo numbers are different. I had to change the elbow fitting right after when I got it, so I am quite sure on you will be dealing with bolts and nuts. It was a pain getting the three bolts out of the elbow and manifold, without breaking the manifold, as my manifold was/is good. I can imagine what you are going through.

Good news is if you want ever want to install an engine heater you can get one that goes in place of that 1-5/8" hex plug you see under the manifold. Easy install. JD, KATS, and Phillips-Zerostart all have a 1000 watt one.

[ngilles]

Thanks Jim for all of the info! I really appreciate your help! I sure hope grinding off the bolt heads and nuts loosens things up. I'm sure it's "rust welded" on right now. More heating, grinding, tapping etc. Hopefully, it comes apart with a little TLC. Happy New Year, I'm sure we'll chat again
Nick

[ngilles]

Jim,
I was up early thinking about the manifold project. Do you think you'd put anti-seize on the manifold bolts going back in? I plan to chase the threaded holes in the head with a tap to clean the threads as well. Just thinking if i ever has to come off again, anti-seize may keep the bolts from cementing themselves to the manifold again.
Thoughts?
Happy Friday,
Nick

[Jim B]

Hi Nick,

Its always good to run a tap into tapped holes, and blow them out, to clean the hole and threads. Avoids the build up and/or drag that can throw proper tightening/torquing off.

I would use a good high temp anti-sieze on them, it can't hurt and may help.

Got to head out to take our grandson to the airport shortly. About an hour away on a good day. Snowing here right now. They say sleet, freezing rain, and rain as we go south to the airport. Hopefully it will be a Happy Friday on this end.

Good luck separating the turbo and elbow from the manifold,
Jim

[ngilles]

Jim,
Safe travels! Same weather here. Was raining and slushy yesterday, froze last night. Now freezing sleet. Not typical Dec in WI weather. Usually more snow and cold. Good day to be in the shop regardless!

Got the turbo separated! Heating, tapping and wiggling. Pics here https://drive.google.com/open?id=1e3Odm ... 4pNVswsBxU

Check out the turbo pics. Would you be concerned with the discoloration of the intake vanes? Turns smoothly, no end play, thinking of running as is. Thoughts?

If I had to replace the turbo, how does the elbow disconnect from the exhaust side of the turbo? More heat and tap?

Chat soon,
Nick

[Jim B]

Nick,

Not typical weather here either. Drove out of 20 degrees and snow to rain (20 degrees warmer) by the time we got to Portland. Planes were running on time so he got off ok. It was cooling off by the time we got back home and turning back to sleet and freezing rain; possibly more snow tonight on top of the current mess.

There are actually 3 pieces there: the turbo, the elbow and a short adapter between them. The adapter has tapered ends and just slips into tapered seats in the turbo and elbow. So beware they could just fall apart on you. Some heating and tapping should separate them, if you want. Always the risk of something breaking in the process. I didn't take photos when I had the elbow and adapter off mine.

Your engine seemed to perform ok, with little smoke? If the turbo is tight as you say, reasonably clean, and not showing oil leaking around the vanes, I would probably run it.

[ngilles]

Jim,
Glad you made the "drop" ok! If our weather continues your way, much colder today low 20's, hard wind out of the north. Everything's pretty crunchy.

Engine ran fine, little smoke, was just very noisy with the broken exhaust manifold. Good starter, like you noticed, does not have engine heater. I've not run this machine in the cold, only picked it up this summer. Thanks for the heads up on fitment of parts (elbow/adapter/etc). Since I didn't see any fasteners, I figured they were corrosion welded for now. I won't heat and tap any more I don't have dial indicators for the turbo end play but I can't feel any. I'm wondering if that "corrosion" on the cold side vanes was just from sitting, moisture in the air etc. Seems to roll over very smoothly.

Now that the hard part is done, (removing bolts from head etc. and turbo is off old manifold, I guess I have nothing to lose by putting back together as is. Worst case, I take i off again. I'm not a contractor making a living with it so I'm just out my "play time".

Now I just have to figure out all of the parts I need for reassembly. I can't get into my "myjohndeere.com" website right now, keeps giving me error messages. That's where I was going for part numbers, drawings, etc.

Frustrating but not the end of the world. Have a great weekend,
Nick

[Jim B]

Nick,

Instead of using "myjohndeere.com", try going to JD parts advisor, as folks without accounts set up do, to access the parts catalogs. I can usually get to the parts catalog through that way when I can't get through "myjohndeere.com". I use that with the log in so I can see the Ag dealer's stock. I normally use the Ag dealer parts site as it gets to the catalogs quicker. I can get to all the PCs there, but not all the "yellow" parts can be checked on their site. I have another account with log in for the "yellow" dealer (MyNortrax) that I use to confirm if the part is really not available as it may be shown on the "green" dealer's site. That site lets me see their stock and sometimes there is a part available through the "yellow" dealer but not the "green".

If you can't get to the parts catalog let me know and I'll see if I can "snip" photos of the pages you need, and email, or otherwise get, them to you to keep you moving forward. A couple times I have also found I had to delete the shortcut to "myjohndeere.com"; I had on my desktop for the log in to that site from my desktop and favorites. Then start fresh and put it back in as a new favorite and shortcut to get it to work.

Jim

[ngilles]

Jim,
"Part advisor" works a lot better, thanks for the tip. Got the intake bolted on today. Any idea how hard I should torque the bolts? I went with 45 ft. lbs. Couldn't find a torque spec in my old T1111 manual.

Nick