450d noise? help!

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WVFarmboy
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450d noise? help!

Post by WVFarmboy » Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:58 am

My 450d is making a new noise, anybody got any ideas?
When shifting to reverse it makes a noise as it grabs to take off(kind of a squall/clunking noise) but also continues to make noise while tramming in reverse. Shifting from N to either forward gear it doesn’t do it. When setting in N idling you can also hear something faintly every once and a while (light clunking noise). Dozer still pulls hard and does not slip in forward and reverse.
Also noticed when I was looking under the seat, the line coming out of the transmission (would be on right side looking toward the front) that heads towards the front of the dozer is vibrating and almost making a noise itself. Maybe non related to the other but doesn’t seem right.
I need to fertilize this weekend and I use my dozer to pull the tractor and buggy up my hill to the fields. Not sure if she is goin to let down on me.
I appreciate any help!

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LeonardL
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Re: 450d noise? help!

Post by LeonardL » Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:37 pm

So what does the machine do if you push the clutch pedal all the way down? It sounds like from what I can glean from your post that it might be a throw out bearing going bad. It may be deeper... I hope not for your sake. It may be an input shaft bearing or perhaps the pump is going bad. But you said it engages in both directions okay so I doubt its the pump. I would check the throw out bearing first.
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.

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Re: 450d noise? help!

Post by WVFarmboy » Thu Mar 31, 2022 6:07 am

When I push the clutch the noise does stop. Do these have a remote grease fitting for the throwout bearing?
Also anyway to check the throwout bearing to know? I have changed clutch and throwout in a 57 Chevy truck but haven’t even took the belly pan off this dozer.
Thanks

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Re: 450d noise? help!

Post by Lavoy » Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:42 am

IF the noise stops when the clutch is in, I highly doubt it is a throwout bearing, I am guessing something deeper, likely quite expensive if you keep running it.
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Re: 450d noise? help!

Post by WVFarmboy » Tue Nov 01, 2022 2:08 pm

I finally dug into it deeper. Removed the top inspection cover on the transmission and the reverse counter shaft's front gear has a place where 2 teeth are missing next to each other and one more tooth missing in another place. I have an old parts manual with part numbers, but do any of you guys know if the counter shaft is still available to buy? Also, I picked up a service manual and they show pulling the transmission (along with the back half) to remove the shaft. Could you just pull the motor to access the bearing cup on the shaft and drop the shaft out of the bottom?
Thanks!
Aaron

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Re: 450d noise? help!

Post by WVFarmboy » Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:07 pm

Lavoy wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:42 am
IF the noise stops when the clutch is in, I highly doubt it is a throwout bearing, I am guessing something deeper, likely quite expensive if you keep running it.
Lavoy
Do you happen to know if the countershafts could be pulled by taking the motor out to access the bearing cups or do you have to split the tracks and set the tranny/back half of the dozer back to get to them? Also do you know if the reverse counter shaft is still available? I would assume I should probably replace the gear(upper shaft with clutch packs) on that mates up to the bad gear on the reverse shaft?

Thanks
Aaron

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LeonardL
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Re: 450d noise? help!

Post by LeonardL » Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:37 am

Dude I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you may as well get your tools out and plan on going deep. You can't pull any of those shafts without having the transmission out to where you can get to everything.

As far as the availability of some of your parts? That can be a crap shoot these days. Deere may have them but the price will be as a "Vintage Part" which is of course the same as if they were dipped in gold. So, I would ask Deere first because you may get lucky and they won't be that expensive. Then if they don't have them or are too expensive you can try to find them select used from a salvage company.

You have a lot to weigh out here. But if you want it right there is only one way to do it and that's tear it apart and fix it. And fix everything while you have it that deep. Or you could compare price of a re-build to the cost of another good machine. Unfortunately that is part of this old iron. Nothing is easy and nothing is cheap. No matter what brand of machine you have.
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.

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Re: 450d noise? help!

Post by WVFarmboy » Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:45 pm

LeonardL wrote:
Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:37 am
Dude I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you may as well get your tools out and plan on going deep. You can't pull any of those shafts without having the transmission out to where you can get to everything.

As far as the availability of some of your parts? That can be a crap shoot these days. Deere may have them but the price will be as a "Vintage Part" which is of course the same as if they were dipped in gold. So, I would ask Deere first because you may get lucky and they won't be that expensive. Then if they don't have them or are too expensive you can try to find them select used from a salvage company.

You have a lot to weigh out here. But if you want it right there is only one way to do it and that's tear it apart and fix it. And fix everything while you have it that deep. Or you could compare price of a re-build to the cost of another good machine. Unfortunately that is part of this old iron. Nothing is easy and nothing is cheap. No matter what brand of machine you have.
Hey thanks for input man! I actually picked up my parts from a used equipment dealer here local. Picked up the reverse counter shaft, bearings and went ahead and got the gear/hub in front of the reverse clutch pack just Incase since that is the mate to the gear with broken teeth. I have everything ready to pull the motor. I am going to make a go at pulling the motor, bell housing, pull the pump and top trans plate. I should be able to get to the bearing cups on the front of the tranny then pull everything else out of the top of the tranny. It all sounds good anyhow… I’ll let you know how he goes.

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jsal
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Re: 450d noise? help!

Post by jsal » Sun Dec 11, 2022 3:51 am

you need to remove the trans from the machine that means taking the tracks off and finals off the transmission !!

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: 450d noise? help!

Post by Stan Disbrow » Sun Dec 11, 2022 6:03 am

Hi,

True. All the crawlers begin assembly at the transmission. Have troubles there, everything else has to come off first.

Stan
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Re: 450d noise? help!

Post by WVFarmboy » Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:01 am

Good day Fellas!
Just wanted to post an update. I have the HLR clutches/shaft and countershafts out of the transmission. For anyone wondering, You do not have to take the transmission out to do this work. You do have to remove the motor, then remove the bellhousing. The bellhousing wont allow the front transmission pump and cover to come off, which is needed to be able to remove the counter shaft bearing cups and the input shaft/ and bearing cup. The little I moved my dozer around the driveway since discovering the main problem ( teeth boke off the front gear on the reverse countershaft), I damaged the gear on the HLR clutch shaft that mates to the damaged reverse counter shaft gear. I was lucky enough to find a used equipment parts dealer local that had both, the reverse countershaft and the gear from the HLR shaft. He also got me new bearings and races. I am struggling now to find a front transmission cover gasket. I ordered one online, they refunded without any explanation (guessing their posting was in error), I have since ordered another online from different supplier, but do not have shipping confirmation yet.... fingers crossed.

Anyone have any trans oil recommendations for the 450D? Local Rural King has Cam 2 promax J20-C. Would that be ok to run in my machine?

Thanks
Last edited by WVFarmboy on Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dtoots1
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Re: 450d noise? help!

Post by dtoots1 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:10 am

Don't forget that Lavoy does have access to just about all needed parts for most of these machines!!

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Re: 450d noise? help!

Post by WVFarmboy » Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:49 pm

dtoots1 wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:10 am
Don't forget that Lavoy does have access to just about all needed parts for most of these machines!!
I dont get on here much.... as you can prob see by the amount of posts I have! If I dont get a shipping notification soon on the gasket, I will Message him. Is that the best way to reach out to Lavoy or does he have a website or something?

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jimmydiesel
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Re: 450d noise? help!

Post by jimmydiesel » Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:09 pm

Look at the first post under Lavoy’s little shop O’Deeres.
440 ICD 602 Blade 3Pt.hitch.
440 ICD. 602 Blade Gearmatic winch.
440 ICD 831 Loader
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North Central Washington State

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Re: 450d noise? help!

Post by dtoots1 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:59 pm

call him at 701-361-1006...he also list most parts on parts page

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